Does anyone still believe this guy?

No offense, nostalgia, and I am on your side here, but you have made some very uninformed and ignorant arguments. You maintain that Finland is invisible? That the US president has nothing to do with the way Finland operates? That it shouldnt matter to Finns what the US does? You're completely wrong on all of those points, and in most of the cases, you're only weakening your points. Sorry.

What are you TALKING about? I didn't say that the US doesn't affect Finaland - quite the opposite. I said that Finlands politics do not affect the United State's politics. My GOD - this is what you get for just skimming the thread.

So paavo (and everyone else on the 'other' side in this thread): Im sure its not necessary, but Id like to apologize on behalf of nostalgia, and make sure you all are aware that basically this whole thread has been you arguing with him, who of course only represents the opinion of 1 person in the US. I can assure you that its not only yourselves who think that at least some of his posts were somewhat ignorant and in some cases insulting.

Well aren't you the team favorite! Stop appeasing - you can't argue with the fact that Finn politics don't have a very large affect on the world, and that is exactly what i meant by the term "invisible." I have already explained this once, it would help if you actually read the posts in this thread. Your post offered NOTHING to this debate - admit it! Absolutely nothing. You just whined about how i'm a mean American and that there are plenty others who are nice. This is a DEBATE, if you have nothing valid to add, there is no reason to post. No one cares for you apologies on my behalf.

If the fact that i think Finland is politically invisible is bothering you so much, i apologize (again). Nothing personal was meant by it, and i hardly think that it even carries any relevance to the debate at hand.

Nos.

[QUOTE=Spectra]Are you kidding me??? :mad:[/QUOTE]


Nope.

1) Global warming is a joke. Maybe I'm ignorant because I live in Iowa where it's freakin cold outside right now.

2) People complain because we want foreign oil...the same people complain because we want to try to find oil closer to home...these people sound like they simply don't have anything else to complain about.

3) Bush wants to cut medical prices, not raise them. Raising medical prices will make people scream for health care programs, which the Republicans do not want to do. Bush's answer to keep from implementing a national health care plan is to force the price of medical care down. You can do this by implementing monetary limits on malpractice suits, and by limiting the amount of malpractice insurance a doctor is required to have, and forcing the insurance companies from price gouging.

[QUOTE=Nostalgia]What are you TALKING about? I didn't say that the US doesn't affect Finaland - quite the opposite. I said that Finlands politics do not affect the United State's politics. My GOD - this is what you get for just skimming thread.[/QUOTE]

I guess that's the whole damn problem really... we, small countries, can't get a grasp on what ever the big rolling monster of america is doing... Our politics don't affect you, but yours do affect us. That's why paavo is trying to pour some info in your brains, to make sure you guys vote wisely.

to Mattboy, Nos, and Malibu, my favorite conservatives

Mattboy Slim, the Hawkeye from Hell - (kidding) I don't buy the global warming theory 100% either, but to "unilaterally back out of" any worldwide treaty is a slap in the face of environmentalists - globally. It's insulting. but, at least the guy is consistent, right? As a nature lover and photographer, I take offense to it.

. Bush's answer to keep from implementing a national health care plan is to force the price of medical care down.

It looks to me like Bush is trying to "take care" of his campaign financeers again. He's already scratched Halliburton's back - and Hallibuton got in trouble for it, sort of. All I know for sure is that there are thousands upon thousands of pissed off poor Americans that can't afford their medicine now. I didn't do the research, but I really should. I could take a very congressional stance and say: I'm not sick, so I don't care.

Malibu, I tried, man, I really tried!!!! I beat up the kids that write those columns in high school. (joking, again! GOD I'm funny). Seriously, I have very conservative, Republican - politically active - parents. Believe me, I get the issues spoon fed to me. I can't for the life of me figure out how I became a lefty hippie tree hugger, but I did. (Common sense, maybe???)

Anyway, I think this thread is all good. Nos, I don't judge - I actually feel bad for you, man. You're getting a pretty bad rap here - but, where you went awry wasn't your politics, that's cool - it's calling countries invisible that pissed people off. Nobody likes to be called invisible. That's where America goes wrong as a whole sometimes, IMO. Anyway - people, back of Nos, he apologized. the guy's got some questions and some opinions, and that's all good.

Haha, at least we can have these discussions and still have fun!

I don't have insurance, so if I get hurt I'm screwed. But it's my fault. My employer does not offer health insurance, so I'm stupid for working for them. And unfortunately I cannot afford to buy it on my own. I don't exect a handout from the government though. I know that if I want insurance I can find a different employer.

Ok I might be wrong about this (which I probably am) but when Vietnam happened wasn't it all the small countries and unknowns and the known ones that stood up and said this is wrong that caused USA to pull out in the end (or was it the fact that they were getting there arse kicked?)?

The fact that LBJ made horrible decisions in Vietnam just to please the protesting Americans is what made a mess of it. He basically made American troops fight with both arms and both balls tied behind them, so they couldn't make the progress they needed to and worked their asses off under a bull**** administration that didn't care about them. So after we knew we couldn't keep Ho Chi Minh's Communists from totally raping South Korea, we pulled our troops out.

don't you think there's an OBVIOUS reason for this:

1. Encouraged Oil Companies to drill in the most ecological sensitive areas of the Arctic Wildlife Refuge.

2. Threatened to weaken USA's clean air regulations.

3. Unilaterally withdrawn from the Kyoto global warming treaty.

4. Proposed new forest management regulations, tossing out 25 yrs of environmental regulations.

5. Targeted over 58 million acres of National Forests for Timber, Oil and Coal mining

Maybe people shouldn't be driving in unnecessarily huge trucks. The administration hasn't done very much for encouraging the research for alternative sources of energy, quite the opposite...or even lowering the engine sizes of cars. Hell, I can't see why people in the US need a 5.0 litre engine to move their asses to the store, when people in Japan / Europe / Anywhere else can do the same thing in a vehicle powered by an engine less than half the size. Your need for oil isn't a real need. It just makes more money using more of it.

you can't argue with the fact that Finn politics don't have a very large affect on the world, and that is exactly what i meant by the term "invisible."

Finnish politics have a very minimal impact on anyone else than us Finns, but why use a word like "invisible"? I'm not offended by the word, just wondering why in the world go for that word? :D

Global warming is a joke. Maybe I'm ignorant because I live in Iowa where it's freakin cold outside right now.

How much research have you put into it?
It's pretty damn cold here too. Poisoning the atmosphere isn't a good thing, however you look at it. Especially not, if you're supposed to lead the world as the only superpower. Live up to your role!

Haha, at least we can have these discussions and still have fun!

Yup! *pops another bottle of champagne and pours glasses for everyone and beats mattboy in Tekken*



To go back to the basics though, to all you thinking Bush is doing an alright job;

What is the reason for the outrage in almost every other nation on this planet? Have you guys even given it a slight moment's thought? I mean, it has to mean something, even to someone like you, right?
And don't tell me it's that "we hate freedom". We don't, in fact, I'd go as far as to say that my own country is more free than the US in alot of ways. And don't give me "they're just jealous". I'm seriously and genuinely curious about what the reason is in your minds, given that you think foreigners are just bitching and moaning without any good reason.

To tell you the truth, i really can't supply an answer - that's exactly why i asked you, as a foreigner, why does it make you so angry that our President isn't decreasing the average engine size...? Of course, i'm not limiting it just to this one issue, there are thousands others that don't even directly affect other nations such as Finland - why is it such a big deal? I can understand you egtting upset over the most powerful nation in the word leading preemptive strikes, but engine sizes? Taxes? Education?

Nos.