Does anyone still believe this guy?

As for what i dislike about the Bush administration - this new immigration policy, have you heard of it? Ever illegal immigrant (an estimated 13 million) currently living in the US will be given a 3 year working visa. This is much like those who choose to legalize marijuana only because it would be dificult to enforce the status quo. Personally, i think a better choice would be to hunt the criminals down and bus them out of our nation, at gun point if need be. Then again, i'm pretty crazy.

Our nation was founded by immigrants. How can you deny them the same chance people from other nations have. Immigration is restricted mostly from Latin America and Africa because people are so goddamn Xenophobic. They are illegal immigrants because there is a system in place which makes it harder for immigrants from certain countries become citizens. And the cost and requirements for becoming a citizen are prohibitive for many millions of the lower classes in Mexico. Why do you feel that you have a right to have access to the jobs you do? You didn't work for that right (for all American born people), you were just born and you had the right. Why are they different because they were born 100 yards over an imaginary line? They don't want to come to America, they do it because they need the money, because they have families to support. They do it out of necessity and our nation will not allow them that right because they don't have to money to go through the regular process.

Nobody wants those jobs because the employers know they can get illegals to do the work for $3.50/hour, so they aren't going to pay a legal worker minimum wage when they can pay an illegal half of that. It's not that people don't want the jobs, it's that the employers don't want to pay legal employees.

Illegal immigrants do the jobs Americans don't want to do. They get up before sunrise and pick fruit until sunset so you can have your f*cking tomato in your big mac. Americans don't want those jobs. And don't claim it's the money. Illegal immigrants have to be paid minimun wage. That's right. It has been upheld in numerous court cases.

If there is one thing that pisses me off about Americans, it's that they feel like they've got some right to be where they are and they do as much as they can to restrict other people from having the chances they do. I have family in El Paso, Texas about 100 yards from the border. I have seen people cross illegally, I know people who have crossed illegally. But you know what? I could have turned them in but I know that they did not want to leave their homeland for this strange nation, they did it out of necessity.

Ask yourself this question:
If your family was starving and there was no work, would you leave them and travel hundreds of miles in order to feed them? Would you leave everything behind in order to make sure your children didn't die of malnutrition and starvation? The people who leave do it for these reasons.

I am a legal mexican living in this Xenophobic land called America. Why should an imaginary line prevent someone from feeding their children?

I'm sorry, but you're totally ignorant on this matter. All of you. Not until you have seen what I've seen can you talk about this and truly understand both sides. Go to the Mexican border towns, see how they live. Hell, go into the heart of Mexico and see it. How can we deny them the rights we have? Are we not all human? Are you better than they are? Do you deserve a better chance to feed your family than them just because there is an imaginary line?

Giving other people the same rights you have?!?! OH MY GOD! Someone call the National Guard! The police! The army! What a travesty! How can they do that? It's not like they bleed red like you or anything. There obviously of a different make up so we like to keep them out.

The United States is seeming more and more like a club for the lucky. Which is suprising because we stole our country for the most part.

I have witnessed firsthand illegal immigration turn a nice town into a complete hellhole in less than 10 years. Storm Lake, Iowa. I used to live less than 20 miles outside of Storm Lake, where we would spend weekend days at the lake, go shopping, visit friends and family there.

Storm Lake has since gone to complete hell. You can't go out at night for fear of getting robbed, mugged, worse. Most businesses have all but dried up. EVERY DAY I hear of somebody getting arrested for something major (attempted robbery, armed robbery, attempted rape) in Storm Lake. I've since moved and now live about 45 miles from Storm Lake, but Storm Lake makes up the majority of the area's news. The worst crimes that happen in my current town are some kid stealing a Snickers from Wal-Mart.

Found a link that explains Storm Lake:
http://rwor.org/a/v19/920-29/920/storm.htm

And note that many notable Latino groups in California are against Bush's 'Guest Worker' policy.

EDIT: Forgot to mention: Not all northbound immigrants are looking for work either...

EDIT #2: An article written by a Storm Lake native who is not against everything going on, but interesting nonetheless: http://www.populist.com/4.97.mytown.html

EDIT #3: A clipping I found:

In Clay County, Iowa, the economic enticements were greater. An outside corporation sought a zoning change to allow it to start up operations in an abandoned plant in Spencer, the county seat. An enraged citizenry crowded into the high school fieldhouse in an emotional demonstration before the city council, winning unanimous approval to block the corporation.

Why would they kiss good-bye 350 new industrial jobs for the city of 11,000? In a word: immigration. The proposed operation was in an industry with a long track record of drawing foreign workers. Local advocates for the new jobs accused opponents of being racist. Opponents, though, noted that the community had freely embraced refugees over the years, and that their concern about an influx of foreign workers was that the experience of other cities showed an unacceptable change in a previously egalitarian way of life.

The most telling reason Spencer citizens gave for blocking the new jobs was: "We don't want to become another Storm Lake."

Until the 1980s, Storm Lake--less than an hour's drive to the south--had been like a twin to Spencer: neighboring agricultural county seat, same size, similar history and economy, a shared bucolic, safe, midwestern lifestyle with excellent schools, and the same epic prairie sky of uninhibited expressiveness. But a corporation similar to the one just blocked in Spencer moved into Storm Lake and immediately began attracting foreign workers. The steady flow soon turned Storm Lake into one of the scores of new immigration hubs created by federal immigration mandates since 1965.

The unrequested changes to fife in Storm Lake followed patterns similar to those in many new-immigration cities. Overnight, Storm Lake schools were dealing with the cultural ramifications of a student body that now is one-fifth immigrant (predominantly Laotian and Mexican) and with the challenges of teaching in different languages. New facilities have been needed to handle the growing population of high-fertility foreign families with their low incomes and low tax payments. Some Storm Lake residents have lost their jobs to immigrants; more have seen their wages depressed because of the loosening of the labor market and the immigrants' lower expectations. The immigrants have tended to occupy housing units in higher densities than natives and have settled in enclaves, changing the character of neighborhoods and causing some elementary schools to be disproportionately filled with newcomers. For the first time, parts of town became undesirable in the real estate market based on which schools had high populations of students who didn't speak English. A community which previously had little reason to think in terms of haves and have-nots became a starkly stratified society.

Especially unsettling--but to be expected in a community of wide disparities, transience, and separate cultures--has been the deterioration in Storm Lake residents' sense of safety. The crime rate soared above that of the rest of Iowa. It is four times higher than crime in Spencer, its former twin.

To a visitor from a coastal city, where the national trend toward economic stratification has been visible longer, Storm Lake still can seem like a delightful place to live. But to those who knew the city before, the changes have been difficult to accept. "It breaks my heart to see what has become of my hometown," said Mary Galik, a Storm Lake native who moved to Spencer.

Note that Spencer is where I live now.

Nobody wants those jobs because the employers know they can get illegals to do the work for $3.50/hour, so they aren't going to pay a legal worker minimum wage when they can pay an illegal half of that. It's not that people don't want the jobs, it's that the employers don't want to pay legal employees.

You guys really need to read this article:
http://maddox.xmission.net/c.cgi?u=walmart

I agree with Telemakhos. And Maddox.

Jesus age christ I don't check for not even a day and it goes from 3 pages to 5 lol

And for the people still insisting about the war:

http://www.theboywhocriediraq.com/

Read it. It's logic not rethoric.

Tele: of the umpteen terrorist cells that were rounded up or tracked after 9-11; how many of them do you think were here as legal immigrants? If I understand you correctly, it sounds to me that you are advocating an 'open border' policy. Thought this one through have you?

edit: I just read the link on theboywhocriediraq. You have GOT to be kidding me? Really? You SOUND very intelligent to me. Much too intelligent to buy into this inanely moronic article. I stomached about 2 1/2 pages before I went and threw up, well... only the dry heaves. This jester is guilty of what he preaches on his front page. Tell the same lie enough and it will be accepted as fact. The only reason you would believe this stuff is if you WANT to believe it. And when I see a bright kid like yourself buying into crap this, it just makes me sad. I don't say this with malice, just saddness.

Read it all the way. He makes an argument beyond propaganda. It's a call for awareness, he's merely using the current administration as a spring board to higher objectives.

I'm not calling for an open border. I'm calling for equal borders, and a policy that people can achieve citizenship no matter of their financial situation. Immigration from Latin America and Africa is restricted more than from European nations or Canada.

And now that you mention it, what is wrong with an open border policy? Why can't we let anyone in? We can continue fighting crime, there will always be crime, but why do we stop people from crossing an imaginary line? Think about it. It's because Americans are afraid people will ruin this great setup we have. We murdered thousands of Indians, rip off hundreds more, and and even stole from Mexico for this nation of freedom we have today. So why can't we let people in? Because the government has people so afraid of foreigners that we forget we all bleed red. People are afraid that because they look different from us that they will somehow screw up America and exist for that sole purpose. They just want the same chances you have, and they actually work to get them.

As for your question. How many were illegal immigrants? I would like to know myself as well as how they tell the difference between illegal immigrants and terrorists.

[QUOTE=Telemakhos]Read it all the way. He makes an argument beyond propaganda. It's a call for awareness, he's merely using the current administration as a spring board to higher objectives.

I'm not calling for an open border. I'm calling for equal borders, and a policy that people can achieve citizenship no matter of their financial situation. Immigration from Latin America and Africa is restricted more than from European nations or Canada.

And now that you mention it, what is wrong with an open border policy? Why can't we let anyone in? We can continue fighting crime, there will always be crime, but why do we stop people from crossing an imaginary line? Think about it. It's because Americans are afraid people will ruin this great setup we have. We murdered thousands of Indians, rip off hundreds more, and and even stole from Mexico for this nation of freedom we have today. So why can't we let people in? Because the government has people so afraid of foreigners that we forget we all bleed red. People are afraid that because they look different from us that they will somehow screw up America and exist for that sole purpose. They just want the same chances you have, and they actually work to get them.

As for your question. How many were illegal immigrants? I would like to know myself as well as how they tell the difference between illegal immigrants and terrorists.[/QUOTE]

A complete open border policy is just a horrible idea. The amount of people immigrating to Mexico is a small fraction compared to those who would immigrate over here. With the un-equal border policy with Mexico right now, we still have more people immigrating over here. It’s very hard to have a fair this and a fair that when one side would be benefiting so much more than the other. It’s probably true a little paranoia has something to do with our border policy. But the reality is that FAR more people throughout the world immigrate here than we immigrate anywhere. You have to limit the amount of people.

But why? Why can't we let as many as possible? Why can't we let them in? Our nation (the eurocentric part at least) was founded on immigration and we can over by the droves and overcame the indians in population. It didn't matter if they wanted us here, we came anyways. Now we think we can deny other people access to our stolen land? Look at the big picture.

Okay tele, you can feed, clothe, house, employ, and provide for every single person who wants into the U.S. Let them all in. It's not about mistreating other people by not letting them into our country. If they really want to immigrate, then they can go through all the steps necessary to become a legal citizens. The problem is there are all these illegals who think they can avoid the law. I work, I pay my taxes. They work, they buy cases of Corona cause the government doesn't know they exist.

A real wake up call for me happened this past week walking into the DMV. Apparently our governor put a new law in that requires DMV officials to check for more valid ID for licenses than they have in the past. Before, any illegal immigrant could get a drivers license with simply the Mexican equivalent of a birth certificate. Now people have to prove they're either citizens or here legally. This law goes into effect the first week of February. I was there a few days ago and the place was FILLED with Mexicans, all trying to get licenses before the law goes into effect. There was such a rush on the DMV I had to make an appointment to get my license renewed because there was at least a 5 hour wait. It's the people who are here illegally who don't think the rules should apply to them are the people I have a problem with.


... I ramble.... so much....