Religious debate - No flaming here...

Considering the word dinosaur is less then 200 years old, I don't think that religous groups trying to prove that dinosaurs roamed around in biblical times have a very strong case. I think its very convenient for them to say "dinosaur" also meant "Tanniyn".

the actual word dinosaur may be a later addition, but i don't think the translation of "great lizard" (which is what's pulled out of the verses in genesis) was just made up from ancient hebrew

chris

Originally posted by Evan3037
i dont believe in god at all, my parents force me to to churce (cathloc) and make me be an altar boy

i think because they make me do it it makes me hate it more

they say i need to do it because it looks good for college and i can quit before college, but this really pisses me off

i

that's unfortunate. That's a bit like being forced to read at school and hating reading. And being forced to eat veggies as a kid and hating those (as I do now ).

I think parents should encourage their kids to dig deeper in their respective religions instead of just blindly following in their footsteps.

anyway, I haven't had time to read all 5 pages, and I certainly would have a ton to respond to but neither I nor anyone else would want to drag back up some of the disscussion points talked about in page 2 or something.

On the dinosaur topic, I say, if God created the world and everything in it, and created the universe, then he could have made the earth in and advanced stage of life. Meaning that he could have made it 'aged'. Why? maybe because in order to have Adam, or whoever, eat off the land things would have to be in an advanced stage. There would have to be trees with fruit on them. The same would go for animals as well. How would that first 'theoretical' fish that crept onto land be able to survive if there wasn't alread some source of food on land? And how could that food source (presumably grass) be there if the conditions weren't right?

I don't know anything about science or any of that stuff but that's my theory.

Originally posted by Spectra
Well, if we were made in the image of god, then why were dinosaurs made first? Were we an after thought? And didn't death only occur after Adam first sinned? So how could the dinosaurs die before this? Or do you believe that the Great Flood killed all the dinosaurs? And if so, did Noah pack two dinosaurs on his Arc? And do you also believe that carbondating and our science of determining the age of our planet is wrong? As well, do you believe man walked with dinosaurs, or do you believe they even existed at all?

to answer really briefly, death did not occur when adam first sinned, sin did. i think the dinosaurs died out from a meteor of some kind, as that's the best theory i've heard so far, and i've heard interesting arguments both for and against the "young earth" theory but at this point lean towards believing we're closer to the 15.75 billion years that science suggests.

as for why dinosaurs were first, why did you put the peanut butter on your sandwich before the jelly? its for the most part an irrelevant question, one i'm sure you could draw some philosophical meaning out of if you wanted to, but irrelevant none the less. i don't know WHY God did certain things the way He did, maybe eventually he'll let me know

its interesting to see how many total misconceptions folks are quoting for reasons christianity/god/whatever couldn't be real. and usually its secular people calling christians ignorant ;)

chris

bill hicks once said

why do people wear crosses? if jesus comes back is he really going to want to see another cross? maybe thats why he hasnt come back yet.

And everyone says, "Amen!"
You may be seated...

Originally posted by zerimar3
And everyone says, "Amen!"
You may be seated...

No, not everyone does...:rolleyes:

Not yet anyway...

hey - how did I miss that - boy it took me an hour to read everything and I got a lot of work...

My turn- I guess I am a skepticism practitioner - I'm wondering wether ...- too many choices...
I mean christians say Jesus is the son of God - muslims say Allah had no son - somebody's got to be wrong right?
My parents didn't force me into anything - My father is a non-believer - my mother is a Christian I was raised by my grandparents - my grandmother used to pray everynight before going to bed but she never made me do it... - I guess my father told her not to... gotta look into that someday.
Anyway - one day I started asking about the Bible and I found out God is allmighty - I was about 10 at the time... - Some years later in school I got really hooked on math - there's a rule there that says if you're not sure of somethig try to see how it would apply in a really impossible situation - so I came across this:

-If God is allmighty then it means that at least in theory he could do anything.
- Could God create a stone so heavy that it would be impossible even for himself to lift it up?
You see where I'm going - if he can make it heavy enough and he cannot lift it - then he's not allmighty
If he can lift it - he didn't make it heavy enough - he's not allmighty.
If God is not allmighty - is he really God?

- I mean the whole idea is that God is something or someone larger that everything - mightier than everything....
So from that point on - I started having doubts - I tried talking with priests - some shooed me off as a blasphemer - others said God is not about stones and stuff and that his work is not about material stuff but spiritual - so what if? - my problem is theoretical anyway - at a certain level you come across gravitational mass and acceleration and the issue is forfeited by physics.... yet I failed to get a good answer...
As long as there is doubt I cannot feel the way I perhaps should...
But - like Paavo - I didn't kill anyone even though I have troubles believing....

edit [grammar and stuff]

here's what I believe to be the answer to that paradox mihai.
http://www.carm.org/questions/rock.htm

I can't sum it up because my writing skills are too poor.

The only advice I have for you is to just read the new testament and decide for yourself about God and all that.

there has to be some faith in the whole Christianity thing anyway (what with God creating the universe and making a virgin give birth and all) so you shouldn't feel doubt all on account of that rock paradox. Just think of that tree in the forest one. If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, does it make a sound. Of course it makes a sound but people are always going to reply, "how do you know if you weren't there?"

anyway, I'll quit before I start confusing myself.

I'm with you on this mihai. This is something of what I mean. Why, if there is somebody, can't he show himself in some way so plp would start to believe or even then turn on him, Why should this mysterious thing go on. Is it because there isn't room enough in heaven if most plp believed or what ? I can't believe there is a god, an allmighty good god, not with this world. And don't say that it is up to us to prove that we are worthy...If he is allmighty then he could make us nonfighters, he could make peace in the world.

Hmm, says some of you, but then we wouldn't be free thinkers, making up our own minds and getting to the grand price: coming to heaven.

To you I say, we aren't that free thinking since, according to some, God made us. And when he did he permitted us to certain levels of brain activity, right. Then we're able to think just what he wants us to think. And in my opinion, he could've made us peaceful and loving creatures from the beginning and we wouldn't have noticed that we can't think of fighting, war and sheiz like that...

I say, return humanity to the developer and claim new undamaged goods !!


snivlem, no offense man, but that link you provided leads to a load of crap. Talk about contradicting himself. First of:
"I'm a man , can run but not outrun a lion. That's not in my nature..." Ok, Thats how he and we are "made". But what in "eitch eeee ell ell" does he know about Gods nature, eh ? Is he Gods bud ?

Then:
"He cannot violate His own nature by making a rock that is larger than He" Ok, now why is that ? I, a simple man, can create something larger than me, like a house. And I can't lift it, hehe. Why shouldn't he be able to create something larger than him since he is allmighty, hmm ?

"At dictionary.com, a rock is defined as a "Relatively hard, naturally formed mineral or petrified matter; stone. a) A relatively small piece or fragment of such material. b) A relatively large body of such material, as a cliff or peak. c) A naturally formed aggregate of mineral matter constituting a significant part of the earth's crust." A rock, by definition is not infinitely large. So, to say that the rock must be so big that God cannot pick it up is to say that the rock is no longer a rock."

Wow, how we turn the words around just to see them fit our purpose. Of course that theory is totally wrong, because he who said that about the rock didn't think of the fact that a rock is called a rock up to a certain point of size, then it becomes something else...Jezuz. Ok for the argument. Lets call the rock...a piece of stony material then... God can't make a piece of stony material so large that he can't pick it up. And because of that he isn't allmighty, and because of that he isn't God. (The last one isn't my opinion, but just my rewriting of the theory so it would be more incorrect namewise...)

Other than that , Snivlem, I do agree with you. By all means read the good book and make up your own opinion. I respect the other point of view, but I do not understand it.... ;)