Religious debate - No flaming here...

Squid, there was no tension. sorry if it came across that way.

Ahhh, it's cool, more my fault, than yours, for mis-interpreting.

i've got lots to say on this but i'll keep it brief for the moment till after i've had some sleep. i will say that

- those of you who don't know a lot of facts with regards to creation/evolution/the big bang/etc., especially with regards to how they can line up with a christian viewpoint, probably don't want to halfway argue that point of view

- christianity, which is what seems to be the main thing being referred to when we're saying "religion" here, is not based upon a set of rules (contrary to popular belief). "religion" is the set of rules man has created to try to connect with God. christianity is based on a relationship. a lot of mainstream denominations get caught up in other aspects of religion and miss that. that's a fault that lies with people, not God.

chris

Originally posted by Fig

- christianity, which is what seems to be the main thing being referred to when we're saying "religion" here, is not based upon a set of rules (contrary to popular belief). "religion" is the set of rules man has created to try to connect with God. christianity is based on a relationship. a lot of mainstream denominations get caught up in other aspects of religion and miss that. that's a fault that lies with people, not God.

chris

I wish I could have made it sound that simple ;)
So yes, what Fig said...

seems like alot of fauts lie with people..
like the fact that they removed gods name from the bible ?
I mean really wth ? guess it helps with that trinity thing they pulled out their asses too.

Rodder454, you seem to be leading the "Scientific" proof camp. I'm not coming at you personally, but you seem to represent that view point well, so I'll address some comments to you.

It's all about faith. You, as a person have a soul. Maybe you'd rather call it aura, or karma, or chi... As such you have to have faith in something--it is a basic need--you choose to put your faith in science. Others choose christianity, others religion, and yet others themselves. For an example of a self-deity, see Shirley McClain. You used the word "proof" several times in your dissertation on science vs. God. You put your faith in the proof of science. I've got bad news for you. Nothing in scientific theory is proven. Hence the word theory. My Organic Chemistry prof in college was a Nobel Prize winner in Chemistry, he flat out said that "Nothing is ever proven in science--your theories are either supported or unsupported, never proven. And some day, someone is going to make a discovery that will make everything we believe about chemistry (science) today invalid."

Maybe that discovery will be the rapture...? ::edit:: never mind this train of thought--I don't wanna get in a discussion about "end times". There's other more basic important things >>>::/edit::

It helps if you understand more about Christ, and the reason God sent him to earth. It's an incredible concept of 'grace'. Not to contradict Deker, but salvation is not something we have to earn every day. It's our faith, not our works. The grace of God is what saves us, if we will only believe and accept his Son as our savior. There is a hole in your soul. My soul. Everyone's soul. That emptiness, if never dealt with will eventually consume you. Maybe through alcohol or drugs, maybe through depression and suicide. You, through the course of your life will try many different things to fill the void. Problem is, that void was created when we were separated from God. The only way to fill it is to find God again.

"but salvation is not something we have to earn every day. It's our faith, not our works. "
so yeah.. apperantly I have a bible.. and glasses.. there I have read, I read in john 3:16 that you have to "exercice" faith in jesus to be saved, exercise is "works"
james 2:26 says that faith with out works is dead.. so
I have reached the conclusion that if we claim to have faith in god or whatever we must there for act in harmony with that faith, or wise faith alone is useless and doesn't count for ****. but I could be having trouble reading today

"I've got bad news for you. Nothing in scientific theory is proven. Hence the word theory"

Well i got some bad news for you.....theories are based off real objects/evidence. Its not even a question of proof. Its just the fact that the basis of a theory is something real, something that can be touched and experimented with unlike the "idea" of religon and god. You couldnt even begin to forumlate a theory about it cause you have no real basis to start from and no real way of proving it. The entire debate boils down to something that real versus something thats not. I choose to put my faith (if you want to call it that) in science cause its there. Its everything we are and everything we know. Faith in anything else defies all that. It breaks all the laws of physics and challenges what we are and everything we have ever known about life and the things that surround it. Its funny casue science (in a way) is the basis of religon. Religon is an "idea". So where does an idea come from?? Its stored/created in the brain by electrical impulses. I could go on and on with that idea but its true.....

ok...enough ramblings for now (my brain hurts..i dont like to think lol)

well, its an old argument, but how do you "know" you love somebody? its simply an eletrical impulse sent to the brain, right? but you "know" it, don't you? ever consider that, with as little as we know about the brain, maybe feelings are or can be a mode of knowledge unto themselves?

some people also seem to think that science and christianity/belief in the bible can't co-exist, which is entirely inaccurate. malibu is exactly right btw, everything is a theory, we only say its not because we've never seen it happen any other way before. that's not to say it couldn't

i've experienced things, seen things, and had close friends go thru experiences that convince with me without a doubt that God is very real and active. you can disprove anything you want if you trry haard enough, but there's far too much coincidence in the thousands of variables that occurred just right during the big bang to make me believe we're all here just by chance.

chris

well...im not sure i can argue with that....so let me throw out another idea for fun:


...what if god and religion was somebodys sick dream of mind control? I mean you never heard about religion any other way...but thats not to say it cant be true. So what would you look to then? Would you accept science? If you think science didnt do it....you also have to consider the idea that religion is fake cause you cant prove science didnt do it....

(edit: I just want to make clear that my last statement also applies to me...not just a one sided idea)