Religious debate - No flaming here...

ax, what you're speaking of is simply a variant of the "new age" mentality that's been around for quite some time now. i find the idea of crystals and karma and the like a bit flaky for my tastes. does focusing on random energy actually give you any kind of answer as to why you're here, etc.?

this provokes a question actually, why is it that people seem so much more comfortable "making up" their own beliefs rather than following something else that's more established? i mean, i've heard a lot of people say things like "well i don't think God sould be like that/do that/etc." in regards to a certain faith so they do their own thing. just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it not true, ya know?

as far as the comments about "forcing a religion" on a child, whatever the child is brought up around is obviously what they'll adopt to some extent, if only because we learn from our environment. however, around the age of 14/15/16 kids DO actually start doubting/questioning their faith and exploring answers for themselves, or at least a whole lot do. i did, and completely abandoned that faith in college (catholocism). thru some self-study, long talks with lots of people about different faiths, and hearing people who knew a lot more than i speak about things i realized that i'd missed the whole point behind christianity growing up due to denominational constraints. as i learned on my own about christianity i realized there was a truth there that i couldn't deny, and that whatever questions or doubts i had about the bible or other things my relationship with God was entirely consistent to everything i read and learned. are there still some little areas that i question, wonder about, etc.? sure, and i still do read both christian and secular literature about all kinds of things to learn and understand more; imo when you think you know everything you've got some serious issues :D the key is, those things that i might wonder about are just that, things i wonder about and question, they have little to no bearing on the foundation of my faith.

zerimar, good stuff...

chris

Originally posted by Zyconium

lol I don't know much but I can tell you for a fact that is not true.. heh someone has been ****ing with your head.

Ok, first...If I may sound upset now it's not at you, Zyc, it's on account of the nature of this debate, ok ?

Once upon a time there was a man called Bill Bowen, who was a elder brother (somewhat in charge, eh ?) in the Jehovas...But he started to see things, things he wasn't supposed to see or atleast wasn't supposed to care about...

read his letter of "disfellowshipping"

Then read this Jehovah Witnesses Pedophile Cover-Up

And check out this 'hole site wich prolly was created just to smear the Jehovas ? (that was irony)

Then say that you know for a fact !!! I can not believe that you know for a fact only because you live nextdoor to a Jehovas, and if you think you do...Then I believe that it's your head thats been fecked with, actually.

Besides, shortly after these exposures the Watchtower site suddenly published a number of "guidelines" for childabuse. That was a "serious" attempt to provide help in the struggle against childabuse.

Finally, I'm not saying that this is happening with the Jehovas concent, but I am saying that there is something sick shiez goin on when plp involved in the Jehovas steps out and almost tell the same thing as this exposed material, and then gets excluded from the Jehovas due to the fact that they've smoked a cigarette...Yes, you read right...from smoking a cigarette...'cuz that's not allowed. But I think an intelligent human being as yourself, Zyc, would atleast suspect wrongdoings here, no ?


Now, this has become a debate 'bout Jehovas or not Jehovas, that was not the issue. The issue was religion in general or why do one believe and what do one believe...

My two cents ;)

im catholic but i dont go to mass every sunday and what not.. i think its all the same.. we all pray to some from of higher power.. but anyway you know God is good and stuff...

I don't pray to anyone..
I'm a bit non-sober now tho, so don't take stuff personally.

I do believe in that something created this universe...and that we're not alone in this universe.
As so cheesy said, "it'd be a whole lot of wasted space". It's true, isn't it?
And I also think it's pretty ****y and even stupid to think that there is no other form oflife out there.. ffs, we haven't got any
knowledge of this place. We've been to the moon...yay..lol, it's in our own backyard.

Now I'm a 100% atheist. I very much think that people praying and going to church are just what their parents made them to be.
And that holds no value in my head..I don't believe in anything you haven' witnessed for yourself.

I believe that people that are religious (in the normal sense) are weak and can't bare the thought of not knowing all answers to why
stuff happens when it does. Joining a religious group is a sensible but ignorant way out, IMHO.
If you're raised to believe something, is another story tho. But it doesn't make it anymore sensible.

How can someone geinuinely believe in something just because their parents tell them to?
I for one want to find out stuff for myself.

And I haven't found one reason why to believe in some old book written (most likely) by some ancient con-artist..
If "god" comes to me and tells me something while I'm awake, I will become religious, apparently.
That's pretty unlikely to happen. People are like sheep....they do what they're "supposed to do".
I think it's what's happened to the ones that are deeply religious.

In my head, those people are just a bit narrowminded, naive even.

Then again, people that say that it's all been a huge mistake..
that's just as naive I think. I think, as long as anyone can't answer how big the universe is..or better
yet, as long as we keep asking that question, we can't handle questions of that calibre.

I'm pretty sure that we're "programmed" not to understand these things. I seriousely don't think that
we will ever be able to answer any of these mind boggling questions. We're just not meant to.

bah.

I don't know that to believe, but I'm damn sure that it's not a damn book we're supposed to be reading
line for line.. It's just an absurd thought.

As for the people talking about christianity, and "doing the right things"...
That has nothing to do with religion.. "thou shalt not steal" etc etc.. it's something
that should be obviouse for every human being. Never mind the religious direction.

I never killed anyone, and still I'm a "non-believer".

Well..anywhoo, I don't know how to sum up my thoughts...but I think religious people
are wrong, and people saying everything's been a "random happening" are wrong.
I'm lost on this one, but at least I know I'm lost...and I'm fine with it.

The answers you're putting on the table, are wrong.

I don't think we'll ever be able to "get the answer".
Just live with it. Maybe that's our ultimate mission. Live with it. :p

*goes to make a final drink before going to sleep*

I think that most of this can be explained with one single word; fear.

People need something to believe in - we all do. Even those who say they don't believe in anything, actually do. It's the fear of being lonely, being helpless, being without guidance in this world - that's why we have religion, right? To calm the fear of death, with the thought of eternal life post-mortem. Religions themselves rule with fear - fear of Gods; "If you don't do like it's been told, you will pay for your sins!". Those who don't believe in a God - well, if you don't believe in anything, what's driving you forwards, each and every day, through the rest of your life?

It can be in believing you will find your One True Love(TM) of your life, getting a better job, perhaps? Getting something done you haven't gotten done?

What's common in these?
You're afraid of being lonely, not finding that love you're seeking, you're afraid what's gonna happen if you go on with your crappy job, or if you get the new now, being afraid of not perhaps experiencing things through your life and not perhaps succeeding in what you've aimed to?

Sorry for the slight off-topic (you judge), but as I've come to notice, fear is the most center thing that connects us all.

About the different religions? I don't know, actually. I do believe in a God, in a way. All of the religions are quite alike - one omnipotent spirit/character in control of all. There are many things that connect all of the religions together - not exactly literally. I do believe there's been a "higher" power that's created everything. But hey, it's a fault of human nature, to question all, and the human logic can't accept something without a reason.

i think anyone who's decided that someone else's beliefs are entirely wrong has some other issues they need to deal with. if you can't accept even the possibility that someone else has something figured out, even if you don't agree with their conclusion...yeah.

In my head, those people are just a bit narrowminded, naive even.

Then again, people that say that it's all been a huge mistake..
that's just as naive I think. I think, as long as anyone can't answer how big the universe is..or better
yet, as long as we keep asking that question, we can't handle questions of that calibre.

I'm pretty sure that we're "programmed" not to understand these things. I seriousely don't think that
we will ever be able to answer any of these mind boggling questions. We're just not meant to.

i think that entire statement sounds incredibly closedminded and contradictory. people that believe in the bible are narrowminded and naive, yet you've just decided that there's some things we're not meant to understand and aren't going to try to investigate anything? your entire post sounds like a cop-out to me to be honest, that you think there might be something there but your bias against religion (for whatever reason) has your stuck in your happy comfortable box that you're not willing to shake, so you don't.

as for why to believe the bible is true, imo its because its a text assembled from authors scattered over several continents over hundreds of years that somehow shares an amazingly consistent theme and consistency despite its geographic and chronological disconnects. not to mention that God has shown Himself to be true to how the Bible describes Him. not to say i didn't have to seek Him out to some extent on my own first tho, because i did.

a question for those out there who have been bashing/questioning religion, which again has seemed to be directed a christianity: how many of you have actually explored it for yourself? not been to church once or were forced to go to sunday school as a child, but how many of you have opinions of religion or christianity that have been derived on your own and not from observations of your religious neighbor or what you see on CNN? from real personal study, knowing what the bible actually says and not what someone told you says or how you've always understood it from something or other.

chris

MxPx has some good input on this subject:

MxPx, "Foolish"

Some people say that I threw my brain away
That I'm illogical and don't have much to say
Some people say that it's foolish to believe
In what we cannot see, so we're deceived

All that I can do is listen to you
All that you can be is out there, you'll see

Every single time that I
Explain to you my reasons why
You turn away; you close your eyes
And then you cut me down to size

Some people say that I threw my vote away
The moment I decided to live life this way
Some people say that it's foolish to believe
In what we cannot see, so we're deceived
I'm not here to make you all agree
But have you truly studied this historically?

Every single time that I
Explain to you my reasons why
You turn away; you close your eyes
And then you cut me down to size

Every single time that I
Explain to you my reasons why
You turn away; you close your mind
Your heart's just not prepared to find
Some meaning, some meaning

Just wait, and listen to that voice
It calls so quietly, for you to make a choice
What will it be? What will it be?

Hey! Where'd everyone go?
No more opinions or thoughts on this matter...hmm.

Well it's great to know God is alive and everything is alright.

Cheers,

Zerimar3

HALLELUJAH!

Oh Lord the day has come! The debate has been resurrected! Can i get an amen? I said can i get an AMEN!!!!!! Clap your hands ladies and gentlemen...our prayers have been answered!



(this is a joke. this is only a joke....loosely based off extremely religious television shows (ya'll seen them..."your healed!"). No one take offense to it please...i mean nothing against religion)

Hahaha!

That's funny there Rodder.
And yes you can get an amen! Amen!