Religious debate - No flaming here...

Your response posted twice.....


Actually i wouldnt mind seeing the debate going again. It was fun (maybe not at that pace though....it killed my entire email box!) I'll probably be a spectator most of the time though (being a science guy is hard lol)

I have respect for everyones believes. I can't think anythin else but if your selfconfidence and "when you stop believing in your self" feelings hit the bottom you turn to a fatherfigure that noone has any proof of excisting...That for me is ...not happening. Can't deal with the thought that when I have trouble some...ghost should fix it for me.

Nah, somewhere it says "god helps he who helps himself", right ? There you have it ! This is the first proof of that all this is a swindle...I mean first a lot of crap about believing and stuff and making sacrifice and that, then a "hint"...do it your self and you'll get help, hehe...Speaks for it self really.

i've got lots of proof. just because my proof (thru experiences or whatever) means nothing to you personally doesn't mean its not real.

chris

I don't see why you guys think being religious means we are weak... I don't see it like that at all. I've never heard that comment before this discussion started...

I didnt read this entire thread, but I have a few things to post. Sorry to reitterate anything said before.

I believe Man created God, God didn't create Man. I believe when we get older, we are afraid to die. So what better thing to convince us that we wont be "nothing" then an afterlife. We simply couldn't stand the idea of becoming nothing after a long hard life, so storys were told that once we die, there was a better place, but only if you lived your life right. Its sort of a way to keep people/youth in line and offer some hope when a person was dieing.

I also have a question? I recently went to a dinosaur exhibit. What to do religious people think about this? Also, does a person like G. W. Bush who claims to be very religious support archaeology and exhibits featuring dinosaurs? According to the bible, it would be impossible for dinosaurs to exist.

I refuse to believe that a person like myself who does not necessarily recognize a "god" could go to hell just for this fact. Thats not what the message is all about.

Oh man, me and my big mouth. Hey Rodder, my response posted twice cuz I was on a cheezy PC and it froze, the I stopped it and hit submit again.

Okay, now Patteman, you said that somewhere in the good book it states: "god helps he who helps himself", right ?" Actually, it's nowhere in the Word. That has to be one of the most misquoted statements that I've ever heard. So does God want us to be lazy, or idle? God forbid! Well that's exactly why we got jobs, to keep providing for ourselves and others. Do we hit rock bottom and expect God to pick us up or have some "ghost" handle our problems? In my opinion...nope. But then again God is not a ghost. God is spirit. Scripture says, "God is a spirit…" (John 4:24). However, "a" is an indefinite article and there are no indefinite articles in the Greek from which scripture is translated, but was added for clarification. Nonetheless, we understand that God is spirit, meaning He is the very essence of spirit and/or life.

And that's what's alive within us, it's the spirit of God or the breath of life or the the passion of living. Take your pic, but it's all God. Now there will always be those who don't believe, and that's why King David of Holy Writ declared that "...the fool has said in his heart there is no God" (Psalm 14:1).

Now I'm not at rock bottom, and I believe in God. Some are on death row and have come to believe in God. Others wait for tragedy to turn to God, and some...until they're on the other side of the grave finally - I'm sure - believe in God. Eventually we get to believe in God at some point. Sooner or later, but hopefully prior to our expiration. So the arguments do not validate God's existence nor do they void His existence. But read this whole discussion from page one and you'll see lots of, "Well I think…" and "According to my opinion…" and "This guy said…" or "I once read…" and so on and so forth. But the issue we're looking at is truth, absolute truth. And truth is greater than religion, because religion is nothing but repetitive practice of some sort of activity. Jesus called it vain repetition (Matthew 6:7).

Then some go on to give an opinion that if God really exists, how come there is so much evil in the world. Then others argue that we have the freedom to choose. Am I the only one to see this contradiction here? Let's see, a little deductive reasoning might help here, with our subject and predicate in order. There's a God, I have choice, I choose for Him not to exist, now there's evil. All the crap we deal with ain't cuz God isn't around to handle it, it's cuz we've got this crazy mindset that we can do whatever the heck we please. That's like saying, "Well there's oxygen in the air, I don't see it so I choose not to believe…therefore I won't breath." Then you got this idiot suffering from brain damage. Is it the oxygen's fault? Nope, it's the dufus who simply said, "I don't believe, so now I'm a vegetable…gee I wonder how this happened?"

But hey what do I know. I'm not here to push religion, or to prove that God exists. He doesn't need my help for that. I'm simply saying He does and it's great to live with the understanding that He does. I just look around and see all that He's created. All He did was submit His own creation in His own science fair and you've got all these scientists still trying to figure out His calculus. But me, I just sit back in my chair with my strawberry lemonade and say, "Thank you Lord for all you've done!"

Cheers,

Zerimar3

Spectra:
You stated: "According to the bible, it would be impossible for dinosaurs to exist."

How so? Where exactly "according" to the bible would this state that it is impossible?

Just asking.

Zeirmar3

What he's saying is that after the world was created, Man was created. Then how could dinosaurs possibly be older than Man if Man supposedly preceded all living things (exluding plants)?

So does God want us to be lazy, or idle?

If so then i just found the meaning to my life lol. Im an completly lazy. Yay me!

Also I gotta agree with spectra. His comments are dead on to the way a lot of us non-religous ppl think. Although im not quite grasping the whole dinosaur controversy. The idea of "Man supposedly preceded all living things" is a little far out. Besides plants and all....what about bacteria and single cell organisms?

!mo0chan!:

You clarified Spectra's point by stating: "What he's saying is that after the world was created, Man was created. Then how could dinosaurs possibly be older than Man if Man supposedly preceded all living things (exluding plants)?"

Where exactly did you get that information from? Got any scripture or valid proof to go with that statement? I'm just wondering because I've been reading plenty of opinions and thoughts not predicated upon any type of truth. You state that after the world was created man was created. But that's not so, according to the bible or the book of beginnings referred to as Genesis, this isn't how it happened.

Rodder:
My good ol' buddy. Single cell organisms huh? They come in 80 different types, but only twenty of them are found in living organisms. The trick then, would be to isolate only the correct amino acids. Then the right amino acids have to be linked together in the right sequence in order to produce protein molecules. You'd have to put together the right amino acids in the right way to ultimately get biological function. Now this wouldn't be difficult if you were applying your knowledge to purposefully select and assemble the amino acids one by one. But remember, this is chemical evolution. It would be unguided by any outside help. So tell me, did a man form man and then guide the structure in another to form the molecular structure? If so the first guy would have to have spent years to learn it all to come up with an understanding of how this all worked.

You've also got to consider other molecules tend to react more readily with amino acids than amino acids react with each other. Now you have the problem of how to eliminate these extraneous molecules. Then there's another issue: there are an equal number of amino acids that are right and left handed, and only left-handed ones work in living matter. Now you've got to get only these select ones to link together in the right sequence. And you also need to correct kind of chemical bonds - namely peptide bonds - in the correct places in order for the protein to be able to fold in a specific 3 dimensional way. Otherwise, it won't function.

Now if I continue with this I'll end up with my doctoral thesis, so I'll quit here, but keep in mind this is only the first step of the process. But hey what do I know, I'm just an English major who has chemical engineers in the family. So common sense alone would tell us that this was guided by who? A man? Hmm, c'mon now, let's be realistic.

Cheers,

Zerimar3
"team preacher"