Religious debate - No flaming here...

Hey guy's...Saw some religious remarks in one thread and came to the conclusion that we haven't had any debate concerning religion and stuff.

I, myself, am not a religious person...at all. I can stand the fact that others are, do not bother me...at all. Except from them Jehovas blokes coming knocking on my door, registering me in their databases and practising inscest and using small children, to them I say "Be gone, you hooligans, Belzebub will get you..."

I know that there are some religious fellas here, why are you religious ? Make me understand, 'cuz I honestly do wonder about this. How come you believe in a guy that, in my eyes, do not exist ? A ghost or something...Do you have proof of a devine being ruling upstairs ?

This thread isn't meant to offend, but to open up a discussion. So plz do not be offended, we can debate in a civil manor, eh ?

Jehovas......gotta love them lol. My neighbors and I always joked around that whenever we see one..we should lock the doors...turn the lights off....shut the shades and wait them out. Its funny how word of a Jehova sighting came spread like wild fire.

Seriously though...im in the same boat as you on this topic. Not religous @ all. I cant even understand it for one second. My life is complicated enough.....i dont need to add more to it lol. I figure ppl are religous as a kind of comfort thing. Like the "why are we here" question....and other unexplainable ideas are somewhat unnerving....so they look to religon to help ease there minds.....or get them through tough times etc. I dont think ppl care whether something actually exists or not (maybe im wrong..) i think its just the general "idea" of it is comforting. If anything the idea of it brings ppl together so maybe thats one aspect that ppl like about it.

no idea here. im just shouting out ideas....

Following up on your idea...It makes me wonder if religious plp in that sense are feeling inferiority complex or somethin' and can't cope with ie personal problems by them selves. Or is God a substitute for a therapist, One need someone to talk too in order to manage one's problems ? Nothing bad in that, tho. Just trying to figure it out...It puzzles me...

I agree with both of you. I was brought up a christian, but do not believe in god at all. I, personally, see the whole god/jesus thing to have been devised by someone as a way to keep the people in line. Start to make them believe in a higher being, who is vengeful when you do bad, but also a very loving, helpful person who will help you with your problems who, when you die, decides if you were a good person or not, and if not, then you are tortured for eternity, thus SCARING people into doing good things.

I have a second theory, also. This theory is that jesus was nothing more than a con artist, who in his time, could have easily led the people to believe he was god's son. But god comes way before jesus, because didn't they execute him for saying he was the son of god?

Bah, I've got school now, I can rant on about this all day, when I get back I'll talk some more. :D

Oh, and for the record, I also don't mind that people DO believe in a god and jesus, and respect that. I also think that believe in a god has some pros, but if taken too far, the cons outway the pros, which I can discuss later. (lol, i sound like I'm a ****ing college professor or something :p)

Well, Joe it does sound like your an college professor :D

Two things, first that scaring plp to believe and being good theory I believe is just what those Jehovas is doin. Perhaps not the more regular believers. I don't know 'cuz I haven't been involved in any of that, but thats my understanding of it, correct me if I'm wrong. And that sucks. I believe that plp have a right to their religion but they should be able to choose that without outside influence, that is others scaring them into believing or for that matter the religion itself scaring them into believing. There I think buddism for one, has got an advantage.

The second thing is you other theory, wich I find interesting, hehe.
I, too, think that this is what might have 'appened. Jesus, the con artist, fooled the pant's or to be more exact, the toga's of everybody back then. I think , I mean really think that this is exactly what 'appened and what a con it was....Plp still buy's it.

But then again, I could be persuaded into, atleast, concider the evil things for some reason, not that I am a satanist, but those things interests me aswell...How come I then so firmly turn my back on the good side of it all, hmmm ? It, for some reason, doesn't seem believable to me...

I was raised a relatively strict Seventh-Day Adventist, and I think how you were raised probably has the most to do with your spirituality. If you were never exposed to it as a child then it's a lot harder to understand it or believe in it.

All of my family are still Seventh-Day Adventists, all of my wife's family are Seventh-Day Adventists, and a very large percentage of the community that I live in are Seventh-Day Adventists. I live in a small town called Collegedale, which is where Southern Adventist University is located, so it has kind of become Adventist central.

I personally have strayed from the church quite a bit since I moved away from home and stopped being "forced" to go to church. I do believe in God, Jesus, the holy spirit, angels, satan, etc. I have no scientific proof they exist, but that is the whole point. You have to have faith that they exist. If there was scientific proof, then it wouldn't require faith anymore, which is kind of the whole point of religion.

Seventh-Day Adventists (SDAs) don't try to scare people into going to heaven. Their preacher's don't get up there and shout and yell and say you will burn in eternal hell fire if you do/don't do such and such.

They differ from other christian religions in a few ways though. The most obvious is that they go to church on Saturday instead of Sunday, because it says pretty clearly in the Bible that "on the seventh day he rested".

They also don't believe in "once saved always saved" which means you can't just decide to be a christian one day, be baptized, and then go on living your life without a care in the world. They believe you must try your best to not sin every day, and must be "saved" every moment. It's not just a one-time deal.

But anyway. As for me personally, I don't remember the last time I went to church at an SDA church or anything, and most of them actually annoy me quite a bit. If people ask me what religion I am, I still say SDA just because I do believe in much of what they teach. Many of the older people in that religion have become very "legalistic" however, and have started kind of making up their own rules as to how a good christian should behave, much like the pharisees did in the Bible. For instance, my wife's parents and grand parents still believe that it is bad to go to watch a movie at a movie theatre. It doesn't matter if you go there to watch Bambi, as long as it is in a movie theatre, it's bad. You could of course rent that same movie and bring it home to watch it on your own TV, and it would be fine. I obviously don't believe in that and think it is quite ridiculous. Some of the almost fanatical SDAs believe that it is bad for women to wear pants. They think they should only wear dresses. These SDAs are in the minority, and the only ones I've ever come across that believe that are in rural Arkansas, where my mom lives (she doesn't believe in that though).

But anyway. I believe in the ten commandments, and try to follow them, but I believe religion is more about having faith in God and loving him and everyone else around you, than it is a set of 10,000 different rules you have to follow. I also believe it is a personal choice, and I don't condemn people for believing differently than I. Sure I think my in-laws are a little silly about the theatre thing, but if their conscience makes them feel uncomfortable being in a movie theatre, then that is between them and God. It personally doesn't bother me at all, and I don't think they should condemn me for feeling that way either. God didn't say "don't watch movies in a theatre" or even, "don't see a play in an amphitheatre" which would have been more appropriate for the time. He only gave us ten simple rules to follow. How you interpret those and to what extent is more of a personal choice in my opinion.

But if you guys come back with a bunch of counter-questions and stuff I don't know how well I will be able to answer them. I haven't really studied the Bible or anything in a long time, and I wouldn't be able to quote passages from the Bible to back me up. I just believe what I believe.

And I and the other moderators will be watching this thread very closely, so don't be surprised if your post gets deleted if you post something bashing another religion or posting anything inflammatory.

*editted for grammar/spelling

Originally posted by Patteman

from them Jehovas blokes coming knocking on my door, registering me in their databases and practising inscest and using small children, to them I say "Be gone, you hooligans, Belzebub will get you..."

hahaha . . . my neighbours are jehovas.. they aren't that bad
maybe you shouldn't talk about **** you don't know about ?
..
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as for religon in general .. . it sucks, religon has been behind every war since the dawn of time, seems that do not practice what the preach. even the UN builind quote from the bible saying something beat your swords .... maybe if religon was incouraging this instead blessing the troops before they go off to war things wouldn't be soo messed up.

I think deker raised a good point with "how you were raised probably has the most to do with your spirituality". Im wondering if most ppl are believers or just "follow" along cause thats what they have been taught or exposed to. Take a child for instance....the parents make the kid go to church every week....make the kid read the bible maybe teach the kid to pray etc. Then you ask the kid what religon they are and they can tell you no problem. But in reality....that kid most likely doesnt understand any of it and is too young to really think for themselves on such a level. And as time goes on....and the kid gets older....they still belive and remember believing as a kid..........but i wonder if they know "why" they believe??? Its like controlled brainwashing (for lack of better word...not meant to be offensive)

Im with the rest of you....not religous but im fine with the fact that many ppl are. But its the extreme religous ppl I dont understand. Like "bad to go to watch a movie at a movie theatre" where do ideas like that come from?? I can understand the idea of not wearing pants(kind of anyway).....it probaly stems from traditional gender roles and wanting a woman to act/dress like a woman but the reallly extreme ideas i dont get.

See, even with how a child is brought up bothers me. Not only do the parents force religion on their son/daughter, but they do it at such a young age that they have no choice. Let the kid grow up, atleast 14/15, and let them choose whether they wish to believe in something, or not, and then suppport them.

I also believe religion depends on the type of person you are. As deker said, that's the point of religion, to have faith. I, for instance, think more scientifically, and can't really believe in something where there aren't atleast some CLUES to its existence. Others, who don't think more scientifically, will more often than not have faith in a higher being.

All I know is, for me to believe, I want scientific proof. Like it, or not, I would need some kind of proof to believe. I respect, and understand people's desires to believe in a god, but I just need something more than faith.

one might consider the perfect balace of everything in the universe to be physical proof
for example if your distance to the sun varied by so much as a degree we'd burn up, or freeze to death...
seems like proof to me... but of course it was just an accident ?