>>Check out my new intro!!<<

im with deker, theres nothing special about splash. and only a proud few actually succeed in making a nicely done flash site such as ultrashock and egomedia.

aswell i dont like those chromeless windows much. i keep getting errors on the page over and over. and im in IE 5.5. after about 3 refreshes i finally got your page working.

MEH

Well then. If you'd like to have a mature discussion, then I'm all for that. I'm just used to having someone cuss me out everytime I don't agree with everyone else on here.

Basically it's a usability thing with me. It breaks all of the conventions that people have 'grown up' using on the internet. (please note, these are all general assumptions, and not meant to describe every flash site on the internet. I know there are exceptions) You can't use the forward/back buttons on your browser, you can't bookmark a page, you can't copy paste text, you can't make text smaller or bigger if your eyesight is bad. Blind people can't 'see' the site because the braille keyboard readers only work with plain html text. I think most of the time flash is truly unneeded, and only boosts the designer's ego. Most users don't want to sit and watch as pieces of the site magically fly together. They come to get information, not watch movies. And intros are just plain annoying. Having to sit there for 30 seconds and have an 'introduction' to a site you are about to see. What the hell? Even Macromedia is encouraging people to stop making intros, because they hate them too.

I know that basically all my reasons can be fixed if the designer is skilled and understands web sites and how flash can be used to good effect. But sadly, there aren't many people like that out there.

So, I will go ahead and prove most of my statements wrong... If you embed flash in an html page and only use it as an interface, then you can still use your forward/back buttons and copy/paste, bookmark pages, etc. But most sites aren't like that. There is a new thing they are working on to embed the text copy of flash into a sort of plain text format for blind people's braille keyboards to read, which will solve that problem. (also using an html page with a flash nav will fix that problem... sort of.... [they still can't click on a flash link, since they can't see it.]) Some entertainment sites work well being all flash. Because people come there to be entertained, not to gain anything useful.

But a lot of sites that use flash, really shouldn't. Most designers just do it because they can, not because it actually makes sense or adds anything to the site or user's experience.

Those are some of my reasons for not liking it. I know I have more. But that's enough I think.

But I am just as wowed by it as everyone else. It really does make things look more interesting by having little stuff move all over the place. I'm just a lot more into making web sites that actually do something. Or offer me some sort of content or experience. (unless it's like a portfolio site, then it's appropriate to wow people and not much else other than provide an e-mail link to hire you)

So now you have some idea of why I'm not the biggest fan of flash sites.

Well i didn't like the intro, it was pretty dull to be honest, and in all fairness it didn't really offer anything to the site. the sites nice, just don't like flash intro's that have lots of spinny crap, just for the purpose of saying "oh look i can make a 3d object move, that will no doubt jerk like nowt else on a lower spec PC"

One good thing is you din't force the intro on us, you gave a choice which is good

-ali

everypoint you made is something i will agree with...that is why.(if i have time) i will almost always give the user an option flash or no flash..this eliminates all the problems right there...

my only concern is that if blind people can read flash then how would they read text that is in an image?

Im 15 so everytime i make something in flash im still amazed at what i have accomplished the same was im amazed when i complete a really good html site..just a little more proud of the flash site though..I've watched the intro like 50 times..and i still think its cool..but that's my opinion...

still im not asking anyone to change there minds about anyting...I don't like chocolate ice cream and i'm not about to be persuaded by someone else to eat chocolate ice cream (don't know where that came from)..

thank you deker i really appreciate you spending your time to share your side of the story with me..thanks

Deker:

If a web site is for information and not for entertaining then why do people watch T.V.? People watch T.V. to be entertained and if the show they are watching happens to teach them something then they got something extra that was most likely not planned. So then why shouldn't programs like flash be used to try and make a site more appealing?? If all the net is about is delivering content then why do we need these ever so appealing graphical interfaces?? So then why don't we all just have none graphical interfaces that only use pictures when something can not be explained through text?? This way here the very low percentage of blind people that do use then net will have no problem with their braille keyboards.

Why is it that websites can't be more like T.V. with the use of flash?? They can be entertaining and you can get your content. As for the few blind that use the net I'm sure that the content that you have on your site is one in a million with something similar that is as good or better, unless of course it's about you personally. But your site will never use flash because you want the blind to be able to get to your content, right?

It seems that you have a problem with the use of flash because you have to wait for it, well does this play true for javascripts that often don't work or having you to wait long periods of time for them to load?? Are you more willing to wait for a large static image then a completely animated site done in flash??

If flash is not properly used or used effectively then how do you use it effectively?? What is it's purpose??

Just some questions and I'd love to hear your response.

..................OK I almost fainted it was so awesome! The intro in Flash is AWESOME........ I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The website is awesome also....

ITS SO COOL!!!!!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D

kayflash: your right but so is deker...i guess that whether a site should use flash or not should depend on its purpose..ex..compaq.com or dell.net should not be in flash because they provide content only..but everyonce-in-a-while when they have something like intel's flash site that they made to explain how the pentium 4 works...sells the product..and provides entertainment in the huge content site...for large content based sites flash should probably not be used as the primary medium..but it is seen everyonce-in-a-while to sell some product...why rather read text or watch the text explain itself...i do believe that someday all websites will be using flash or some technology like it...now lets not forget that the comp site that im making in flash/html hybrid site is probably the best solution..im trying to make the user get a feeling of professionalism, maturity, clean, and quality. And thats what really makes the site ... the impression upon the viewer will sell the product or service... i mean why do we prefer to watch tv over reading a book....now don't get me wrong some people like reading...im not trying to offend anybody...

CUptow555 : thank you for the kind words...I really like the intro myself..I gona make some sweet text bluring and other effects tomorrow...Ill post the new intro when its done!!

Macromedia is encouraging people to stop making intros, because they hate them too.

Deker : i would like to see some proof..(that doesn't sound like macromedia)

If you want i can ask someone from macromedia about your little quote?...wait i probably shouldn't be wasting their time..with trivial things like this.

sybersnake, you get it, and I respect you very much for that. I also appreciate the fact that you give people the option of HTML or Flash.

Kayflash, I did not say that entertainment sites should not be made in Flash. That's exactly the opposite of what I said. You actually twisted my whole post around and put words in my mouth. I tried to make it very clear that I don't have anything against Flash, and I think it is a great technology. I also said that I don't think it is put to very good use. I, myself, don't know what the perfect use for Flash is, and don't claim to. I don't even know how to make a Flash site. I do know that I don't enjoy most Flash, other than for some entertainment, and 'wow' purposes. I also did not say all web sites are only for content.

I specifically pointed out that each web site has a different purpose, as well as a different audience, and so it should use different technology on the web site. Use technology to enhance your web site, don't just put it on there because you can. I mean take MIDI music inserted into a page without a stop button. Does that annoy you? I think so. But did everyone think it was the coolest thing ever when it was first available? I think so again. I'm just making a point that just because the technology is there, doesn't mean you have to use it.

sybersnake, I probably won't be able to dig up any concrete proof. I just remember reading it on k10k, or praystation.com or zeldman.com or something. I think someone from Macromedia gave a lecture about it at one of the Flash Forward Conferences.


Actually, here's a little something I found on the Macromedia site itself. Pay close attention to number 3. All of them are really good though, and you'll see most of them mention my problems with Flash. So you see, even 'top Flash developers' or whoever they said think that Flash should be used sparingly.

Macromedia link

Here's another press release saying how Macromedia is starting an initiative to encourage designers to follow the ten guidelines listed above...

Press Release

Here is an entire mini-site devoted to Flash useability. Read the articles and the quotes from all the top people...

Mini - Site