Discussion: How do you feel about abortion?

Very idealistic redeye. As an adopted person I can attest to the fact that adoption has worked very well for me, there were bumps and scrapes along the way (some more serious than others) but overall it was a positive experience for me.

The sad truth however and I speak as a partner to a social worker and having minor dealings in my former profession with the ramifications and the difficulities of the process itself. Reality is that adoption is far removed from the process that was around in the 70's and 80's and to some extent beyond. Adoption is nigh on impossible for many couples. Got a minor conviction? Ever had mental health care or councelling? Adopted yourself? Above a certain age? Want to adopt a enthnicaly/culturally different child?

All of the above are more than mere obstacles in the way of adoption. The harsh reality is that children get passed through the care system until they are old enough that the authorites can wash their hands of them. It can be no surprise when the products of such a care system produces male and female prostitution a majority of it underage, drug addiction and other social issues such as violence and criminal acts.

It is a by-product of the current system and something has to change.

I digress however as this has little to do with abortion and everything to do with adoption. On the subject, I think it is base and pointless to discuss poeples personal attitude to an imotive subject. There is no right or wrong. It cannot be legislated against, at the end of the day it is a matter of personal resolve. It is not for society to judge. Just hope that we never find ourselves in the same position one day for whatever reason.

:: didn't want to dissappoint ya Mattboy, I know ya needed one hardline pro-lifer to make this thread fun ::

i was coming ;)

as you would probably guess, i'm strongly pro-life. having sex is like a lot of other things, by doing it you take responsibility. there is the potential to create life every time you have sex, you're taking that risk by undertaking the activity. a fetus is, inarguably, a potential human from day 0. it may not make it to the point of becoming a person but that's for nature and not us to decide. abortion is taking a life, plain and simple.

chris

Why are TCorps and Telemakhos posts being ignored? Lol

I won't respond to all the above comments and gobbledy-gook, I'll just put here what I think and we can go from there:

"With half my brain tied behind my back, just to make it fair" -- Rush Limbaugh

========================

The vast majority of abortions are performed because the child is an inconvenience, not because it is a necessity. We regulate everything else a woman can do to her body, why should abortion be immune to regulation? The Nazis "scientifically" justified their treatment of everybody else including the Jews. But MORALITY said it was wrong. Whether you like it or not, morality plays an issue in law. Nobody here is arguing that murder should be illegal, why should abortion be legal simply because the baby is living within something else?
=================
The ultimate hypocrisy: One thing that is impossible for me to grasp is the fact that Liberals are so protective of endangering wildlife, but scream bloody murder (yeah) when someone wants to take away their right to kill an unborn child. You say it's OK because the child cannot rationalize...well neither can plants jackass, but you'll fight tooth and nail for them won't you?
=================
Some of you that say "Well the neurons haven't fired yet, so it's OK." Well the baby at the exact moment of conception has all the chromosomes that define it as a human. At the moment of conception, the baby has everything that it needs to become a person (hopefully not) like you. People age and reach puberty at different points in their lives, I don't believe that there is a magic number at which you can say that an embryo becomes a human. At three weeks the baby's heart beats. At ten weeks, the baby can suck its thumb. Sentient? I would say so. As best as I can come up with through Google, scientists "theorize" that neurons start firing at around 18 weeks. This image below is of a 16-week-old fetus. If you can tell me that this is NOT A HUMAN, then I invite you to come to this place I call Earth.



I'm not 100% conservative on this matter, I believe that in the cases of rape, incest, and where the child is endangering the health of the mother, then abortion should be allowed. Keep in mind that this is less than 1% of all abortions performed.

I'll respond to this mind-blowing quote by 3jorn:

Young people have hard enough time being able to take care of themselves and then if you put a child in to the picture it can ruin the womans (and mans) life.

It's simple as hell man, don't have sex. Sex is made for making babies, if you can't hone up to your responsibilities, then DON'T HAVE SEX. "To put a child into the picture"...??... What you should have said was "To have sex and make a baby can ruin the parents lives" That way it actually sounds as stupid to everyone else as it does to me.

Why are TCorps and Telemakhos posts being ignored? Lol

I noticed your giggle at the end of that. Respond to my comments and I shall gave the last giggle.

[QUOTE=mattboy_slim]I won't respond to all the above comments and gobbledy-gook, I'll just put here what I think and we can go from there:

The ultimate hypocrisy: One thing that is impossible for me to grasp is the fact that Liberals are so protective of endangering wildlife, but scream bloody murder (yeah) when someone wants to take away their right to kill an unborn child. You say it's OK because the child cannot rationalize...well neither can plants jackass, but you'll fight tooth and nail for them won't you?
[/QUOTE]

How can you compare wiping out a species of animal and or plant to aborting the really early stages of a child birth? Wouldn’t you agree there’s plenty of humans dragging their knuckles on the ground to worry about endangering our race?

If you want to compare births to endangered wildlife or plants, find the number of births compared to abortions. Trust me we’re doing ok. However animals and plants are going bye bye.

I’m sorry but I can easily see how a liberal can be more passionate towards endangered wildlife and or plants vs early child development which not everyone believes is killing anything at all if its in the early stages.

I don't think anyone can however deny something is gone when it's truly gone though. (Talking about the wildlife and plants thing)

The ultimate hypocrisy: One thing that is impossible for me to grasp is the fact that Liberals are so protective of endangering wildlife, but scream bloody murder (yeah) when someone wants to take away their right to kill an unborn child. You say it's OK because the child cannot rationalize...well neither can plants jackass, but you'll fight tooth and nail for them won't you?

LOL, great point. Tele - plants don't rationalize either :p

Nos.

[QUOTE=Nostalgia]LOL, great point. Tele - plants don't rationalize either :p

Nos.[/QUOTE]

Uh Huuuck! I do like dem pickles Baaarn.

[QUOTE=FlackBait]Why are TCorps and Telemakhos posts being ignored? Lol[/QUOTE]

actually, using the powers of deductive reasoning, i'd say my comments about a fetus being from the very initial moment of conception at the very least a potential human rather (as well as others) directly respond to "A fetus is no human" and "Until the babies neurons start firing they are technically not human because they don't have the ability for human thought".

chris

[QUOTE=Fig]actually, using the powers of deductive reasoning, i'd say my comments about a fetus being from the very initial moment of conception at the very least a potential human rather (as well as others) directly respond to "A fetus is no human" and "Until the babies neurons start firing they are technically not human because they don't have the ability for human thought".

chris[/QUOTE]


According to ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny, (and I don't know if any of you have ever read about) every species repeats the evolutionary development of that species. Therefore (in my view) at that stage of development, a fetus honestly cannot be seen as human quite yet.

Personally I don't think it's a matter of neurons starting to fire and at which age the child becomes human...the most important thing is that whatever that thing we call fetus is - it has the ability to become human. It does not require any special steps in order to become human - you just need to let it be..and voila! A human!

And from this point of view - I think it's wrong to abort. I see here stuff about legislation and wether it is legal to abort. It may be the legal thing - it may also not be a fuly developed human - but is it the right thing to do? So - what if it's not human yet? you can just butcher it?

So - ok TCorp - at some point the baby will resemble more an invertebrate than a human... but if you don't stop it - it becomes human.

That being said - I do agree that in some cases abortion could be the right thing to do - like incest and all the other stuff. In that case I think the interest of the species outweighs the interest of the potential individual. An inbred trait is no use to the gene pool. Also in the case of rape - where the interest of the mother also outweighs the baby since it was forced upon and will more than likely be the cause of psychic damage.

I also think that a baby is a responsability that is larger than just the mother's. In other words, it's not just the mother's choice... it's not a cheap toy that can be discarded.

Given the ease of use of contraceptive measures and the fact that most people can get such measures at any street corner I personally think a heavy fine should be instated for unwanted pregnancies - it's just laziness. I'm not speaking here about extremely poor countries but of the "modern" world - where it's easier to conceive if you're lazy than to pop a pill in your mouth because you can always "throw it away" later - it's not like it's human yet right?