world trade center, pentogon...

Originally posted by Kayflash
I am also not saying that this is your fault, as it's everyone's, Canadians, Germans, Americans, etc., for not being big enough to say no to violence and to stop hate crimes in there many forms.

I don't think you understand. The most likely reason the terrorists commited this act was because of our stepping in saying "No" to violence and the acts that their country was committing on their neighboring countries.

The reason we stepped in and got involved in the "Persian Gulf War" was because of Saddam Hussein's brutality against the Kuwaiti people. He was commiting hate crimes against others, so we stepped in to stop it.

But how did you step in?? From what I can remember there was violence, or am I wrong.

That's the problem, violence.

Violence get's violence. Give love get love.

What else was there to do? Run in and give them all loving hugs in the name of Jesus Christ so save their souls?

If we gave them love for their unforgivable actions, do you SERIOUSLY think they would have given love in return? No. If we would have shown love toward Saddam for invading Kuwait and killing it's people, he would have thought he could do it whenever he wanted, and who would have been next? It could have been Canada. The U.S. risked it's ass by running in there and kicking Saddam out. We lost a couple of soldiers, and even now, many of those soldiers that fought are suffering from extreme lung cancer due to his chemical weapons. Should those soldiers have shouted to the dunes of Kuwait that they loved Saddam? They would have been killed within hours. THEN there would be serious problems. If the United States did not act in the way that it did, that very well could have turned into World War III when Saddam attacked every country that had no defense system. And he could have succeeded because no other country has the power to stop him other than the U.S.

Sit on that for awhile before replying. Seriously think about what may have happened had we NOT gone in and stopped him. Think about your defenseless Canada. If the U.S. did not stand up for Democracy in the world, nobody else would. Nobody has the power nor the balls to jump in and bomb him. I guarantee if you were picking on the local neighborhood boy, and some bigger kid came along and kicked your groin with 10,000,000 Megatons of force for doing it, you would think twice about beating up that little boy again.

Edit:

And we DID give Saddam a warning before we went in. We told him that if he didn't back off immediately, we would resort to military force. He didn't back out. So we did what we had to do.

The reason we stepped in and got involved in the "Persian Gulf War" was because of Saddam Hussein's brutality against the Kuwaiti people.

I think 'big oil' played a bigger roll in that war than you would like to think....

The US does not practice the best foreign policy, we support governments that support capitalism. In my mind we dont have a democracy we have a capitalistic society, you cant have both.

We lost a couple of soldiers, and even now, many of those soldiers that fought are suffering from extreme lung cancer due to his chemical weapons

and other ills from our own depleted uranium shells...

and yes this is off topic, the above is politics, what happened today was a tragedy.

i'm afraid that the "problem" is a little more than just violence, and if you think that bombs dropped on Palistine or the concession of oil is the cause of this and other provoked acts of terrorism, then you don't understand the situation in the middle east.

there is a hatred that has been brewing, since the birth of ishmael, in the arab nations. I'm not going to go into it, because, as it has been stated already in this thread(not just by me), we, as a people of this nation should, at this present time, be more concerned with what is happening on our own soil. Even the President said our first priority is the fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters that have witnessed first hand these attacks.

You have a right to be angry. Everyone has a right to be angry. Let's not vent that anger irresponsibly by offending friends that happen to live in other countries. The hand that ordered this destruction will get what's coming. Don't worry about that. Now, however is not the time to point fingers and speculate about who did what, or who is or isn't doing their job as a world super power! KNOCK IT OFF!! You should be ashamed of yourselves arguing about presumed diplomatic policies and foreign affairs. Take a look at how this day is affecting the world as a whole. Let's love each other. We can get the terrorists later.

I think many of you have let your emotions overwhelm you. I agree, this was a terrible act, it would have remained just as horrible if it were to happen in any other country. I value all human life equally, without regard to race, faith or geographic location.

I agree that the guilty parties should be punished, but, we must find out without a doubt who they are. Making snap judgements is not the proper way of going about solving this whole matter. Making harsh statements on an internet forum, in my opinion, are inappropriate.

I am a US Citizen, born and raised, I served in the US Army for six years active duty. I consider my self a patriot (not an extremist) and have backed the majority (not all) of US political decisions regarding conflict. The Palestinians, you must understand, are patriots themselves. They are a separate culture than most of us, (meaning anyone not Palestinian), and possessing a different set of morals. Thay are strong in their faith so much so, that they are willing to take the lives of others who opppose their point of view. From an outside stand point, it seems disheartening to see such behavior, however, those opposed should not fall prey to the reaction these individuals are striving to achieve.

My point is, instead of reacting to Palestinian's behavior, react with support for the families and victims. Support the government agencies who are trying to eradicate terrorism. No human, no matter where they are, who they are or what they stand for: if they are citizens of the general public, should not suffer this way.

I'm a paramedic, I work in a level 1 trauma center and I see death more often than I would like. People from the ages of 10 weeks premature to people well into their 90's. Some are quite disturbing and stick with you for months, some show up off and on forever. However, this is nothing compared to what the people in New York and The Pentagon experienced yesterday. This experience is emblazened in their minds for the rest of their days. There will be subsequent anxiety, depression and ultimately suicides from the survivors. We must support these people and try to withhold from speaking at face value. The United States is an intellectual country run by the people. Let's make our wise decisions known to our representatives.

Thanks,
Justin

Mattboy --

I am absolutely horrified by your opinions - do you have any idea what you are implying?

You seem to be unaware of a few things

1 The shock over wjhat has happened is worldwide. I live in London and I know that there is a cloud over this city at the moment. We are shocked beyond belief -I think nothing can be compared with this.

2 There were citizens from all over the world in that building - I know there were hundreds of people from Britain in there.

3 Your misguided perception that the US is performing some sort of humanitarian function defending democracy all over the world is cartoon nonsense. Why do you think this has happened? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA OF THE HATRED some arab people feel towards the US ? Look at your facts if you want to know why this is.

4 And this is the most important point ....

If any more innocent people are killed in any country it will be a tragedy - what you are implying with your "eye for an eye" talk will quickly lead us into a third world war. There are hundreds more young men in Palestine waiting to kill themselves for their cause - don't give them any more reasons It will escalate beyond anyones wildest dreams.

This is a rare opportunity (maybe the first after Vietnam) for America to hold the moral high ground. Of course the people who did this need to be disposed of. Unfortunately they do have to be identified first.

Originally posted by markzebra
Mattboy --

I am absolutely horrified by your opinions - do you have any idea what you are implying?

You seem to be unaware of a few things

1 The shock over wjhat has happened is worldwide. I live in London and I know that there is a cloud over this city at the moment. We are shocked beyond belief -I think nothing can be compared with this.

2 There were citizens from all over the world in that building - I know there were hundreds of people from Britain in there.

3 Your misguided perception that the US is performing some sort of humanitarian function defending democracy all over the world is cartoon nonsense. Why do you think this has happened? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA OF THE HATRED some arab people feel towards the US ? Look at your facts if you want to know why this is.

4 And this is the most important point ....

If any more innocent people are killed in any country it will be a tragedy - what you are implying with your "eye for an eye" talk will quickly lead us into a third world war. There are hundreds more young men in Palestine waiting to kill themselves for their cause - don't give them any more reasons It will escalate beyond anyones wildest dreams.

This is a rare opportunity (maybe the first after Vietnam) for America to hold the moral high ground. Of course the people who did this need to be disposed of. Unfortunately they do have to be identified first.

i'm going to have to agree with markzebra's thoughts here...
i'm not too sure whether or not mattboy u think that way...
but the other main views markzebra has do make sense.

"--news--"

actually i heard that they were identified, and cell phone calls or something were tracedm back to osama binladin, but they're not 100% sure, and the people that hijacked the plain all had pilot's licenses.

Bashing matt soley based on his opinion is completly ludacris.

Turn on the tv. Talk to people who you once thought to be rational, thinking humans. See what their opinion is on this. You might be surprised.

I have talked to 20 or 30 people who I work with and attend classes at a local college with. These are people who are very intelligent and rational. I would never have though I would hear some of the things they have said in the past days.

Strangely, as it appears from watching news programs where people call in and give commentary, these are the same opinions that are held by more Americans than you think. Why? because the people who did this deserve to die. Why should we have any concern for their civilians? They had none for ours.

Don't give me that "two wrongs dont make a right" bull**** either. The United States has casually sat by and watched the actions of these organizations for decades. We sat by for over a year while Iranian's held OUR people captive. We sat by after the bombing of the PanAm Flight over Lockerby Scottland. We sat with our hands in our laps after the FIRST bombing of the World Trade Center. We retaliated after the bombing of two, COUNT THEM, TWO American Embassies were bombed in Africa. Not only did they kill Americans, but they killed innocent Africans. It sent a message. Since that message was sent, state sanctioned terrorism has seen a decline.

The ONLY thing these people are going to understand is violence. i am sorry that you disagree with it. I am tired of my fellow americans, my friends, my family members and other loved ones die for no good reason.

So sit on the other side of the fence. Condemn us because we don't wear rose colored glasses. Allow your sympathetic feelings to blind you to cold hard facts. Someone has to do something about it. Whether we do it through retaliatory action, or nata/un sponsored sanctions on these countries who harbor anti-american sentiment, it needs to be done.

I had a gruesome realization today. I walked into a grocery store owned by a Muslim family. He had the news on. He was laughing.

Mark, where in my statement did I say that our defending Democracy was a humanitarian effort? I stated the U.S. defended Democracy in the world. Although I do believe that it is a humanitarian effort, since I, as an American, belive that Democracy works best, or I would not be here. Do you think that the U.S.'s defense of Democracy is something to be looked down upon. No, right now it is not working very well in Russia, but without it, America would not be what it is today. If you think that Democracy is a bad thing, then move to China, and see how well you like it. Move to Pakistan and see how well you like it. Our defense of Democracy is needed in this world. In non-Democratic countries there is far too often extreme mistreatment of that country's citizens. I don't belive that any person should be treated like that.

And never did I say that there were not citizens from other countries in those buildings. For you to think that I was unaware of that is absurd. I have watched the news constantly from hour #1. They mentioned that numerous times. I am not ignorant as to what is going on. But right now I believe that you are. You do not see everything that we see here. You do not live in this country. This horrible act was not committed upon your country. This is personal.

And what do you mean by this:?

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA OF THE HATRED some arab people feel towards the US ? Look at your facts if you want to know why this is.

Of course I know, if they didn't hate us so much, they would not have done this. And what facts do you want me to look at? What did we do to them? Is our Christianity killing their people? No. Although I am not racist, I do not agree with their beliefs of how they treat their women over there. Because we allow our women to show their faces, does that make us evil people? No.

You do not know the events in our history that we know of. We have stood by before. We did nothing when the World Trade Centers were bombed in about 1993, but we did find the people who did it, and they were dealt with. We will do whatever we have to do to bring whoever did this to justice. And I personally, if needed, will help.

EDIT:

Oh, and Amenranozira, if you want to know my opinions, read through this thread. I have posted many, if not all of my thoughts.