Microsoft moving jobs overseas?

smart business, why stay here and listen to everyone bitch about pay when you can make a guy a rich man for 1/3 the pay in another country.

Flackbait, enlighten me as to why I need to travel, please.

Yeah I was kind of wondering that myself....

and

If you are losing your job, then you weren't doing your job as well as you could have been

That has nothing to do with whether the company moves jobs overseas. It comes down to how much can they cut off costs to run the company. The only semi-safe job is one that requires a person to be physically on US soil. Any job can be moved over seas. It doesn't matter how good you are at your job. If the CEO sees he can save the company 50 million next year by moving 1/3 of the labour pool to India, they will. They don't care who you are or how long you have been with the company or how well you do. Unless you are in upper management or at that level they probably don't know who you are. Especially in some company like Microsoft.

[QUOTE=mattboy_slim]Flackbait, enlighten me as to why I need to travel, please.[/QUOTE]

Everything you’ve said is completely insane.

“Listen, I think any company should be able to hire whomever they want. I think if anyone wants to force companies to hire Americans, that the company should move their entire operation overseas, and cut out America completely.”

Sure I agree, but we aren’t give those in other countries the same benefits are we?

$20 an hour. No here’s how much some tech jobs get in India The starting salary of a software engineer in India is around $5,000. Experienced engineers get between $10,000 to $15,000. Top IT professionals there might earn up to $20,000.

You want to know how much it cost to rent an apartment here in the Bay Area? $1500-$2000 a month. How is it that we’re not making ourselves indespensible? We need lots of money just to get by. Companies want to get 5 techs for the price of one American Tech plain and simple.

It’s complete bull**** to expect anyone to compete with that. How could “you” possibly take a pay cut to about $15,000 a year to live? That’s how much a full time McDonalds employee gets. I’m sorry but where I live you need at least $30,000 to just get by, and I’m not talking about a nice sporty car that’s included. I mean food and housing and transportation.

Not enough people are going to be making good enough salaries if all our highly educated worker jobs go over sea’s.

“Then you move your jobs to Somolia, to Chile, to Abu Dhabi. If I owned a company, I should be able to hire whomever I want, without government interference. No Affirmative Action, no forcing me to hire American laborers, no interference at all.

We’re exploiting other countries and their people! People in India are better off with jobs but they’re still living in poverty. Why is that ok?

If you are losing your job, then you weren't doing your job as well as you could have been

That has nothing to do with whether the company moves jobs overseas.

They don't care who you are or how long you have been with the company or how well you do. Unless you are in upper management or at that level they probably don't know who you are.

My point exactly. If you were the king of your job, they are not going to let you go. If you are worth your salary you are worth your salary. If you do the same job that 3000 of your cubicle-buddies do, then you don't stand out, and you don't advance. I don't want to advocate working for somebody either really, you will never make what you want to make, never be what you want to be, and will always have a chance of losing your job, unless you are the boss. So simply become the boss.

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$20 an hour. No here’s how much some tech jobs get in India The starting salary of a software engineer in India is around $5,000. Experienced engineers get between $10,000 to $15,000. Top IT professionals there might earn up to $20,000.

Flackbait, you obviously did not read that artcle, so you must have pulled those stats out of your ass. I did a LexisNexis search for those figures and I could not come up with those numbers that you gave at all. That article clearly states, as you obviously do not know:

For work at its campus, Microsoft agreed to pay $60 an hour for software developers, $72 for senior software developers and $90 for software architects. For work in India, Microsoft agreed to pay hourly rates of $23, $31 and $36 per hour.

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How is it that we’re not making ourselves indespensible? We need lots of money just to get by. Companies want to get 5 techs for the price of one American Tech plain and simple.

Listen, if you can't make a living out there, do something else. Why should a company be forced to hire you, when someone overseas will do your job better than you for a cheaper wage. Your reasoning blows me away. Why do you think you deserve special treatment because you don't want to work as hard as someone else? If you think you deserve more money for doing less, then you are on a different planet than the rest of the people in this forum. And don't tell me that I'm looking at this the wrong way, that is exactly what you said.

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Companies want to get 5 techs for the price of one American Tech plain and simple.

Well of course they do, why is that wrong? When you go to Wal-Mart to buy toilet paper, its more economical to buy the 12-roll package than the 6-roll package. Why would you buy (2) 6-roll packages for $10.00 when you can buy (1) 12-roll package for $8.25? Your comments are bording or Socialist. You are not entitled to anything, work for it.

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Not enough people are going to be making good enough salaries if all our highly educated worker jobs go over sea’s.

Flackbait, start your own business. Find a product, sell it, hire yourself. Pay yourself what you want, but make sure you hire the underqualified guy who wants more money. You'll see it from the other side of the chess board then.

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Sure I agree, but we aren’t give those in other countries the same benefits are we?

No, of course not, and that is a ridiculous argument. How can you provide health coverage in a 3rd world country? Should we give them cell phone reimbursements? Should be give them company vehicles? I don't get what you are saying.

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We’re exploiting other countries and their people! People in India are better off with jobs but they’re still living in poverty. Why is that ok?

This depends on the definition of exploit that you are referring to. Of course you are talking about "To make use of selfishly or unethically". Well I hardly think that it is selfish for a company to save money. Companies have investors, those companies are obligated to the stockholders to manage the company's money in a prudent manner. I invest in a lot of companies, and those companies need to save money if they want to keep their investors, which they must do or they will no longer be a company.

And nobody in India making $23 to $36 per hour is living in poverty. If you believe that then I think you sir need to travel to India.

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OK, listen, I have come up with a solution for those who feel cheated. Invest in Microsoft, Intel, Proxim, something. Then you can make the money that they are saving by moving their labor force to India, and you don't even have to lift a finger. It's freaking simple!! Take $50 out of every paycheck for one year. That's $1300 if you get paid every two weeks. Proxim was up 28% today. That's one day fellas. If you put your $1300 in Proxim stock yesterday, you'd have $1664 today...and you didn't have to do ANYTHING!!!!???? People who invest smartly don't have to worry about their job going overseas. Before you complain about Habib taking your job, instead think about what you can do better. If you lost a race, would you complain that the guy who beat you was faster than you? No, you would assume that he cheated. It's because he worked harder than you. The age-old adages always hold true. Hard work pays off.

“Flackbait, you obviously did not read that artcle, so you must have pulled those stats out of your ass. I did a LexisNexis search for those figures and I could not come up with those numbers that you gave at all. That article clearly states, as you obviously do not know”

Oh please, everyone who’s participated in this thread including you have been generalizing. I’m now scrutinized for not talking specifically about your article? The figures were from the Washington Post, and I’m talking about the big picture.
If you take your Microsoft figures and look at everyone else out there bringing companies over you’ll see 90% aren’t as generous. That’s the problem. One good Samaritan doesn’t make it ok for everyone else to mess everyone else up.

“Listen, if you can't make a living out there, do something else. Why should a company be forced to hire you, when someone overseas will do your job better than you for a cheaper wage. Your reasoning blows me away. Why do you think you deserve special treatment because you don't want to work as hard as someone else? If you think you deserve more money for doing less, then you are on a different planet than the rest of the people in this forum. And don't tell me that I'm looking at this the wrong way, that is exactly what you said.”

How is it asking for special treatment if I’m asking for enough money to feed myself and live in a ****ty apartment?

“Well of course they do, why is that wrong? When you go to Wal-Mart to buy toilet paper, its more economical to buy the 12-roll package than the 6-roll package. Why would you buy (2) 6-roll packages for $10.00 when you can buy (1) 12-roll package for $8.25? Your comments are bording or Socialist. You are not entitled to anything, work for it.”

Have some compassion. Why do you think it’s ok to make people work 7 days a week to get a 12 roll of toilet paper? By your standards shouldn’t India be policing the world instead of us if people are judged and rewarded by how hard they work?! Do you think they like never seeing there families? Do you think they take great joy in working every day of the week?

“Flackbait, start your own business. Find a product, sell it, hire yourself. Pay yourself what you want, but make sure you hire the underqualified guy who wants more money. You'll see it from the other side of the chess board then.”

There’s a whole crap load of people here in the U.S that ARE qualified that are out of a job. There are also tons of people in the U.S that are hard working too.

People in India are better off with jobs but they’re still living in poverty.

$20,000 a year @ about 46 rupees per dollar = 920,000 rupees a year. If you don't live in a really pricey area you might spend 5,000 - 6,000 a month in a big city for a 3 bedroom flat.

I spent 2700 rupees a month for a 1 bedroom house in a moderate city. So I would say even thought they are getting paid $20,000 US for a job that is a A LOT of money over there.

So tech jobs moving to India will greatly beneifit them and give a boost one of the fastest growing middle classes in the world, next to China.

I'm sorry, but I have to side with Mattboy on this issue. After all, a business's number one priority is to make money. If they can do it better in another country, then so be it. If you're so pissed about being layed off, then maybe you should start your own company. Not like it's "as simple as that," but hey, you get control over where it goes.

And about what Mattboy said about doing good work -see, i think a lot of the people who complain becuase they got fired during times of economic downfall and majof layoffs - the complain, but the true fact is that they really didn't do the quality work that they could have, or made themselves as useful as they could have. They just bitch because they got fired. People who really commit themselves to their work will be able to withstand economic fluctuations.

Again, I support this because I feel it is in the spirit of capitalism. Go where the money is. It's the spark that got this nation going and the fuel that's kept it burning. Oh, that, and burning red communist flags. Damn communists!

I found the article where you pulled your stats:
http://www.robertreich.org/reich/20031102.asp
Also note in that article, he is stating that tech outsourcing is a good thing.

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Anyways...

Oh please, everyone who’s participated in this thread including you have been generalizing. I’m now scrutinized for not talking specifically about your article?

Flack, sit back for a minute and read. You told me I was wrong with my stat. You said, and I f-ing quote:

$20 an hour. No here’s how much some tech jobs get in India

You told me my $20/hour statistic was wrong, so I'm strutinizing you for being bull-headed, not for not reading the article, which you clearly should have done. Before you attempt to chew my ass, cover yours first.

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And now you are jumping around. First you were complaining about the jobs going overseas, now you are complaining because they aren't paying them enough? ****! Do you understand the concept of a neverending circle. That completely throws the point of moving labor overseas right out the window. If you pay them too much, then you might as well hire the worthless Americans to do the work. Or is that your way of getting your job back?

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How is it asking for special treatment if I’m asking for enough money to feed myself and live in a ****ty apartment?

Because you don't want to work to get it. Nobody is entitled to anything, period. You want to live cheaper, move out here to Iowa. The median income is only $4000 less than California, the median income raised a larger percentage than Calfornia, and apartments only cost $250-$400/month.

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Why do you think it’s ok to make people work 7 days a week to get a 12 roll of toilet paper?

OK, now you are going to have to learn to read. I did not say anything remotely resembling what you said that I said. If you are going to misquote and misunderstand, please do it with some dignity instead of amentia.

Just so that you don't have to work anymore than you don't want to, I'll requote what I said:

When you go to Wal-Mart to buy toilet paper, its more economical to buy the 12-roll package than the 6-roll package. Why would you buy (2) 6-roll packages for $10.00 when you can buy (1) 12-roll package for $8.25?

Since that went so far over your head you couldn't stand on a ladder to see it, I'll restate it:

Why should I be forced to hire 12 Americans at $24/hour when I can hire 12 Indians for $12/hour? It is hardly fair that I should have to pay more for labor simply because there are people out there like you who don't think you should have to work as hard to make as much money as somebody who will work that hard.

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Here is what we are doing to prevent sweatshops: http://www.state.gov/p/sa/rls/pr/29733.htm

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There’s a whole crap load of people here in the U.S that ARE qualified that are out of a job. There are also tons of people in the U.S that are hard working too.

These people are qualified to do what exactly? If they are out of a job, then all they are qualified to do is to sit on their ass. If you are out of a job, and you want one, you arent't trying to get a job.
Of course there are people in the U.S. who are hard working. Those people still have their jobs. If you were truly working hard, you'd be working hard at making sure you don't lose your job. If you are in a job that may get shipped overseas, for Christ's sake, if you are worried, get a new job. Go be a garbage man. If you are above that, then you deserve to lose your job.

So are you saying that somebody should be forced to hire these people that are out of a job? Should these people get benefits as long as they don't have a job? Or should they move to India and get their old job back?

Maybe I'm sounding like a prick, but I'm sick and tired of everyone thinking that they are entitled to ANYTHING.

I do not expect much from other people in the way of gratitude, approval, and response. And as such, I won't be disappointed in life when such responses aren't forthcoming. You are probably a person who is carrying a lot of internal anger over the fact that not enough people give you what you feel entitled to. Painful as it is, you are not entitled. Don't let that idea get too far away from you in life.


And I'm with Supah....down with the Communists

Anyone wanna hire me?.. You pay 75% less.