Microsoft moving jobs overseas?

Confidential agreements between Microsoft and two software companies in India were leaked to a Seattle labor group that's lobbying against overseas technology contracting.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2001957020_microsoft16.html

Do you think its bad that Microsoft may be sending programming jobs overseas? Do you think its bad that any company is sending jobs overseas? Did you lose your job to an overseas worker? Do you think it is the fault of our government / current administration that jobs are being shippped overseas?

Well the Indian programmers can't do any worse than the american programmers are at making Windows. ;)

I don't know that it's "wrong". Does it suck? Yep. But what do you do in this economic climate when your competitors are using those outsourced resources and producing their goods/services/wares at a fraction of the cost of what it costs you to do things "in-house" or with a local/regional/national company? This post 9/11 economy has changed the Amercian business model into one that is more lean, aggresive, and cautious all at the same time. After you've fired/layed-off 30% of your staff and made the other workers pick up the slack... after you cut employee benefits... eliminate perks... after you tighten the belt on overhead expenses and it's *still* not enough, what do you do?

They are not the first by any means... Oracle did thatm not to mention all the outsourced help by Dell... I think it's a smart business move to move part of their shop to India. You can pay someone 20K a year ($US) and they are rich over there. Or you can pay someone $50-80K a year and listen to them whine about how underpaid they are. Plus India has some of the brightest software engineers in the world. And also some of the toughest CS schools.

But it is just a sign that, like D4 said, the economy has changed. As companies can no longer afford a middle class, they will just outsource it.

This outflow of white collar jobs; engineering, IT, accounting, tech support, etc. to developing nations is a major problem. This is not new news, but one which needs much more press. Boeing has sent aerospace engineering work over to Russia, other companies are sending jobs over to India and the Phillippines. The problem is not just economical, it's aptitude. Sure, it's cheap to send work over there now, but what happens in 10-15 years when these countries are spiraling in double digit inflation, salaries have tripled, their consuming has reached staggering levels? Where does that leave us? It is no longer a cost advantage to outsource this work for the corporations in the U.S., but they can't bring the jobs home, because there are no longer any strong engineers graduating, because there's been no work for over a decade. There is no 'senior' engineers who can bring the new trickle of graduates in and show them the ropes.

Look at the financial implications for the economy. Sure the 'corporations' still make money--which has been okay for decades as long as a huge chunk of that money goes to salaries which drives consuming which drives the GNP of this country. They'll still make money because they save on salary base, plus when these developing countries take over 5 billion dollars in salary base by 2008 (I'm working from memory from a Newsweek article over a year ago), then the corporations will gladly sell their cars and wares overseas in China and India! But what happens to the U.S. economy? What happens when we lose billions of dollars a year in high tech salary base? What happens to the GNP?

Be afraid. Be very afraid!

I am curious how you would think (referring to Matboy) that the government has influenced the shipping of jobs overseas? I realise in those anti-bush ads they mention it, but what exactly is the Bush administration doing? Tax breaks? Incentives?

This has been going on for a long long time. A lot of jobs moved to Canada and Mexico/South America - mostly industrial & farming jobs, but now it's intellectual jobs and hi-tech jobs so it's freaking everyone out. I mean when auto jobs moved across the border to skirt environmental laws and pay lower wages with little or no Union intervention, no one seemed to care but the auto workers. Same with a lot of factory jobs. With all these WTO meetings going on and all the people who support a WTO, hmmm, you mean maybe they discussed the possiblity of this? NAFTA moved trade and jobs across borders. WTO will do the same globally.

I agree it will have a large impact on the US economy in the near future. I am not 100% certain that all R&D will be done overseas. What they are taking advantage of is the huge labour pool that is not letting large companies make huge profits. It's already affected the programmer industry. How many programmers do you know that can't find a job? I know a professor at Simon Frasier University (he does advanced computer theory and math) he told me CS enrollment is diminishing in the last few years. If it wasn't for the gaming industry, programmers would be f*cked.

With all this capitalist talk and no government intervention it would seem whatever a company can do to make more money for the top 5% would be smiled upon? *starting the war - lol*

Yeah. It's not wrong. Might not be "right," but it's perfectly justifyable from a business point of view.

You can't villify the company for doing it. They are doing it for the good of themselves, not the american economy. after all, that's the capitalist attitude.

I guess it’s up to me (being the stupid liberal nobody listens to) to bring this up…..One word, sweatshops…

Those of you who don’t mind shipping jobs overseas seriously need to look at how little we enforce out domestic trade laws.


edit: and yes this goes for high tech jobs too.

I am curious how you would think (referring to Matboy) that the government has influenced the shipping of jobs overseas?

I don't think so, but I know that there are people that think/are saying the current Bush administration is the only administration under which jobs have gone overseas.

Listen, I think any company should be able to hire whomever they want. I think if anyone wants to force companies to hire Americans, that the company should move their entire operation overseas, and cut out America completely.

If your job in in jeopardy of being moved overseas, then you should have made yourself indispensable, you should have gotten a job as a garbage man, or as a carpenter, or as an airplane pilot. If you are losing your job, then you weren't doing your job as well as you could have been. Maybe you should just move to India if you want a programming job. $20/hour over there is probably more than equivalent to $50/hour here.

You want a job? Move to India and teach English. You'll never be out of work. Move to India and teach programming.

The problem is not just economical, it's aptitude. Sure, it's cheap to send work over there now, but what happens in 10-15 years when these countries are spiraling in double digit inflation, salaries have tripled, their consuming has reached staggering levels? Where does that leave us?

Then you move your jobs to Somolia, to Chile, to Abu Dhabi. If I owned a company, I should be able to hire whomever I want, without government interference. No Affirmative Action, no forcing me to hire American laborers, no interference at all.

And keep in mind that new industires are popping up every year. For every item invented, every new discovery, people are needed to make the product, and do research. Look at how many jobs computers have created. Those jobs were never there in the early 80's. Next year, I'm going to invent the "Hooglehub", the next biggest thing after the car and the computer. There will be 7 "Hooglehubs" in every house. Somebody is going to have to make the "Hooglehubs", somebody is going to have the sell the "Hooglehubs", and somebody is going to have to do the accounting paperwork for the "Hooglehubs".

Sending jobs overseas will allow us to do more research to create new products. How many of the greatest inventions of mankind have come from America in the last 125 years? You think we will stop now? Allowing another country to do our labor will allow us the time to simply invent more things, meaning more jobs. It's a neverending cycle, not a dead end.

[QUOTE=mattboy_slim]I don't think so, but I know that there are people that think/are saying the current Bush administration is the only administration under which jobs have gone overseas.

Listen, I think any company should be able to hire whomever they want. I think if anyone wants to force companies to hire Americans, that the company should move their entire operation overseas, and cut out America completely.

If your job in in jeopardy of being moved overseas, then you should have made yourself indispensable, you should have gotten a job as a garbage man, or as a carpenter, or as an airplane pilot. If you are losing your job, then you weren't doing your job as well as you could have been. Maybe you should just move to India if you want a programming job. $20/hour over there is probably more than equivalent to $50/hour here.

You want a job? Move to India and teach English. You'll never be out of work. Move to India and teach programming.


Then you move your jobs to Somolia, to Chile, to Abu Dhabi. If I owned a company, I should be able to hire whomever I want, without government interference. No Affirmative Action, no forcing me to hire American laborers, no interference at all.

And keep in mind that new industires are popping up every year. For every item invented, every new discovery, people are needed to make the product, and do research. Look at how many jobs computers have created. Those jobs were never there in the early 80's. Next year, I'm going to invent the "Hooglehub", the next biggest thing after the car and the computer. There will be 7 "Hooglehubs" in every house. Somebody is going to have to make the "Hooglehubs", somebody is going to have the sell the "Hooglehubs", and somebody is going to have to do the accounting paperwork for the "Hooglehubs".

Sending jobs overseas will allow us to do more research to create new products. How many of the greatest inventions of mankind have come from America in the last 125 years? You think we will stop now? Allowing another country to do our labor will allow us the time to simply invent more things, meaning more jobs. It's a neverending cycle, not a dead end.[/QUOTE]


You need to travel.