Photoshop - "Art" - and Web Design

.. Geez, a guy's not allowed to be blunt in this damn world anymore. You said yourself you'd love to hear responses, and mihai gave you just that: an honest damn response. Praise won't make you any better; the reality of critique does most of the work.

Im not sure where this thread is going......but in response to:

I think there is a big difference. My main example is www.2advanced.com, frankly, I don't like that site at all and they don't seem like designers to me. They just learned a million things in Photoshop and Flash and stuck them together. Yeah, they've go skill, but they need an artistic eye on the team.

I was about to go nucking futs over the mention of 2A....but ya know what? I totally agree with you. Sure they got skills. For technical/backend work...they're one of the best. But the actual design/artistic side of there work........well blows. Especially since they wont stray and try something different. Its not really design..if its the same damn technique every time.

As to Bowman

"Exactly how high is the learning curve for photoshop"

Well, its high....but thats the wrong question. The question should be "how high is my learning curve"....basically what mihai said about "the things you're looking for are called "talent" and "originality" "

I want to be able to sit down with Photoshop and just 'create' something beautiful - again like the header I linked to above. But somehow I just can't figure out yet how to fly this thing that way though.

Unless your gifted thats not going to happen. The reason your creating orbs and plastic is so you can learn the skills. Its not a matter of creating something beautiful....its really creating something........figuring out why its not beautiful....and using your skills to refine it. Its a process....not something thats instant.

This kind of behavior would not be allowed in most - especially toward new members.

if by that you mean, offering a response to a post that gave valid points, then I guess there are alot of pointless forums :\... naturally I encourage people to post meaningful posts and responses because I feel thast part of the learning circle.
I'm sorry you feel like leaving :\, but leaving just because someone replied or should I saw (rambled) about your rambling (O.o) is a bit immature.. even if mihai did come off a bit strong.

but I do hope you change your mind about leaving , we really do like new comers around here.

If you want to act like a child and leave when people start to be hostile, then leave. People on this forum has said things that piss me off to no end, but those instances are few and far between. (Plus we kiss and make up :D). This is a good place to learn and take the occasional hit to the gonads of your ego.

Stay if you want to learn.

I hate to beat a dead horse, but everyone is right. Photoshop is mearly a tool.

"Real" designers, more often then not, go to the software LAST. That being said, I am just as guilty as most everyone here, and head straight for my applications, rather then brainstorming and sketching things out on paper. You did talk about web applications, so my point here is a bit moot, but a succesful designer needs to be able to envision their design without the aid of a computer. As a print designer, I always have better results if I mockup, brainstorm, and even create 3D versions before I ever touch the computer. The reason being, you force yourself to be creative on the computer. If people would just get off it for a minute or two, you would be amazed at what you can come up with just with some simple brainstorming. Another issue is time, no one finds the time to brainstorm, so they head straight for Photoshop.

That was a bit of a tangent, but I think you may see what I mean. Just like mihai said, you need the originality, creativty and talent to be succesful. Study all aspects of design and understand it.

You are also right that pawning a white canvas off with a splash of paint and calling it "art" can be cheap, but on the other hand, it takes a very talented person to be able to simplify a design down to something simple and effective. Way to often people here and elsewhere post work that is only half thought through. Being able to convey your message in as little words as possible shows true skill. Then you can start playing with style. Once you are able to communicate as a designer, then you are truly able to express yourself in any way.

With all that said, I used to do many tutorials and emulate others work. That was because my PS skills were weak. I had the ideas, I just couldn't transfer them over with PS. So the more I worked, the stronger I became with the program. Now, I believe I am quite skilled for the amount of experience I have had.

Your learning curve for PS is all dependant on where you want to go with it. No one will ever know the program inside and out, so you learn what you need to use. I feel this forum is primarily web orientated, with just a handful of real print designers. So there are many people on here that have little tricks and skills that help them design sites. Me on the other hand. I know how to effectively prepare photos for print, and to manipulate them decently enough. So just keep with it, and you will start to learn what you need to know to get by. It's just a matter of commitment.

Yeah, I started out just going straight into PS too, but now I am changing that. I am doing lots of drawing and other things to get the creative juices flowing, and I haven't made anything in PS for a couple weeks. I am kind of sick of it to tell the truth, so I am trying to learn illustrator, print is really interesting me.

So, is a mod going to PM or e-mail J.K. Bowman, and see if they can kind of...re-explain the situation to him, and perhaps suggest that there will always be 'harsh' posts, or at least posts that will not give him the answers he wants right away. There have clearly been a number of sensible replies, and most of them were if nothing else, helpful, and none I think, were in any way detremental.

Any one see a way to salvage this? It seems like his questions were more than answered.

Thanks - but I think I now understand this fourm.

This kind of behavior would not be allowed in most - especially toward new members.

Enjoy yourseles.

I'm outta here.

You certainly won't make it through many critiques given here concerning designs and layouts, so i think you made the best choice.

Nos.

Concerning mihai's post

Can I just have a bit of a rant:

It is because of posts like this that communities such as this deteriorate. Okay, you apologised, but that damage had already been done. You have to understand, many people feel vulnerable when they are new to a community, especially when they are new to the common interest or skill that it shares, i.e. newbies. Instead of getting on their high horse and automatically dissing people "can't you google?", "stupid, use the search tool" (not quoting anyone here), it would be more helpful if people were actually friendly. Okay, most people that I've seen, are - however, the minority *really* spoil it. Some are sarcastic and don't mean it in an unfriendly way, but that sarcasm, especially on an a communication interface such as this, could be very easily taken the wrong way. Thus, offending someone. Another thing you must understand, new members are often not aware of certain etiquettes or rules, and may not have had the initiative to read the rules, simply because they are new to these communities. Just be more understanding. Please, please, all I'm saying is just be a bit more gentle, friendly and helpful.

When it comes to developing websites, it takes me a couple days to brainstorm on what I want. I usually lay on my bed, and just picture it in my head, and try to work out the layout in my mind.

But at times (when it comes to individual small graphics), I just fool around and see what I come up with.