Photoshop - "Art" - and Web Design

Hey Gang,

I started to post this as a follow up to my most recent thread. But I decided to start a new one. I'll just mention the two are kinda related.

Also - forewarning - lol..

I need a momentary lapse from work - so I feel a ramble coming on. So please bear with me. I need a break.. :p

This may, however, be intersting to some though.

Especially for the web designers and especially for the web designers who are new to Photoshop.

I've been doing the website thing for quite a while now. But honestly - in that medium and especially where 'minimal' can be thought of as 'trendy' or artistic - you can really get away with knowing very little about graphic creation yet still appear to know a whole lot. For instance, just basically putting hardly anything on a blank white web page and calling that art. Again, if pitched well it can make you look like a pro - while at the same time actually hiding the fact that one knows very little about graphic creation or site design.

Then there is the other side of the coin. Not to pick, but I'll point out the kind of websites generally sold at places like TemplateMonster or DesignLoad.net. Many of their offerings are very impressive. In some instances we can even call them beautiful. But just from my perspective they all have one thing written all over them.

It's extensive use of Photoshop - creating a layout which what seems like every kind of gradient and drop shadow you can think of and just about always supplemented with some kind of huge photo or header at the top of the page worked into a design.

I'm not sure what to call these sites I just know you can kinda spot em a mile away. Despite the complexity of some the layouts - there just isn't anything about them that IMHO looks origional.

The originals don't even look origional. The look like templates.

Still, however, if you work in design and see these kind of things being promoted so successfullly on the web - at least for me - I wanted to be able to create layouts like that too if for no other reason just so I can say that I can do it.

Well, with that said then I set out to learn Photoshop. I was already comfortable with Fireworks, but to create the kinda of graphics I'm interested in creating I just had no idea how to do it in Fireworks and I could not find tutorials on how to do it either.

Case in point I added this link into the 'other sites' forum here to kinda explain what I'm talking about.

http://kloobik.com/index1.htm

I love this design. It comes close to having that Template Monster effect on me but not quite. I can tell this is an origional. But again - with Fireworks and my knowlege of it I was completly lost as to how I'd go about creating my own cool looking header like that. And I still want to do that. I don't want to copy the guys site of course. I want to make something origional. But I can't deny that this site gives me a lot of inspiraton for what I want.

Here's the thing though. I bet I'm now at least 30 hours into doing Photoshop Tutorials now. No lie! And that's just counting the QuickTime Movie Lenth. That's not counting the amount of time I've spent moving back and forth between my copy of Photoshop CS - working on the image - and then going back to the Movie.

I've also gone through that excruciating initial process that I think comes with a lot of software of learning all the buttons and stuff like that. To which I'll add, gawd does Photoshop ever have a lot of them. And I'm glad for that, but still that's not my point.

In the process of doing all that I've learned a heck of a lot about photography - retouching photos - creating gel text - plastic text - crystals - orbs - gradients - etc.. I can create torn paper - attach a torn note to a photo and add to that a 3D paper clip. I can stick heads on other people's body's. Remove wrinkles. Heck, I can even make a brush out of my face. No lie!!! rofl.

But still - if I had to sit down and just create a graphic similar to the header graphic I referenced above I have to admit I'd be totally lost.

That said - just kinda an open question - "Exactly how high is the learning curve for photoshop?"

It isn't like I haven't been paying my dues. Honestly, I've been working very earnestly and very sincerely with Photoshop since I got it. But unless someone wants some plastic text or a orb with a really cool highlight and drop shadow I'm not sure how else I'm going to use it. Something here just isn't 'clicking' yet, but I'm not sure what that is.

I want to be able to sit down with Photoshop and just 'create' something beautiful - again like the header I linked to above. But somehow I just can't figure out yet how to fly this thing that way though.

If anyone wants some "shiny plastic text," some big ole chrome text with a big ole drop shadow, or better yet a round ball with a drop shadow - lol - Please let me know!!! I can whip that up in a heartbeat.

What I'd rather you do, honestly however, is kinda tear apart what I just wrote.

What is it that I'm not getting here? What's not clicking? Is it going to take a Waccom tablet?

Or should I just keep making more and more plastic text, chrome buttons with big drop shadows, and round balls that glow? Or is there something else I should be studying now.

Thanks for letting me ramble. Would love to hear the responses.

And Cheers!

Technical Photoshop mastery does not make you a good designer. You could read and memorize every tutorial on the internet, but your stuff will still look "tutorialized" if you just keep making those same effects all the time. Now that you have a good knowledge of Photoshop it's time to use your own creativity to come up with new stuff. You just have to think of the design you want to make before you start Photoshop, then figure out how to make the design later. Now that you know your way around Photoshop you can use the tools and techniques you are familiar with, modify them, tweak them, come up with your own techniques, and make something original.

It would probably be helpful to you to study design, page layout, and typography, rather than just a software program. Photoshop is just a tool. Just because you know how to use a chisel doesn't make you a sculpter, you know?

Here is a site listing a few great design books: http://www.simpleydone.com/elementary/simpley_thinking/design_books.php

There is nothing wrong with minimalist design if it's done correctly, and that is by far my favorite type of design, and the way I design all of my sites. I don't like any of the template monster/2advanced type sites at all. Sure they are flashy, but they are rarely usable or fast loading, and they rarely have good content since most of the focus is on the graphics. But there are also sites out there that try to label themselves "minimalist" when they are really just "empty" so I know what you mean. But don't put all your time into Photoshop, at least for web sites. There is a lot more important stuff in web design than Photoshop. Now if you're just talking about creating cool graphics and digital art pieces, then that is completely different of course.

I don't think a Wacom would really help you unless you are trying to do digital painting, and even then a lot can be done with a mouse when used by an experienced artist.

First of all let me say this:

It's extensive use of Photoshop - creating a layout ....

WTF?

good - now that's out of the way:

This is the New to Photoshop help area - ramblings are for the Misc section.

658 words into your post you say

still that's not my point

is there one? Have you no pity? It's 2 in the friggin' AM and I read two pages worth to learn you haven't made your point yet.... in the help section?

I am glad you learned how to make shiny orbs and such...

....Something here just isn't 'clicking' yet, but I'm not sure what that is.
I want to be able to sit down with Photoshop and just 'create' something beautiful - again like the header I linked to above. But somehow I just can't figure out yet how to fly this thing that way though....What is it that I'm not getting here? What's not clicking? Is it going to take a Waccom tablet?... Or is there something else I should be studying now.

the things you're looking for are called "talent" and "originality" - and for that you don't need to learn Photoshop you need to aquire design skills a thing which all to often is lacking.... Photoshop is an application - not an oracle - it doesn't teach you how to think - rather it helps you create what you're thinking of....you need to learn how to think - the Photoshop help section deals with Photoshop - you need a guru...or an epiphany....

haha deker - we posted at the same time - should have kept quiet

Hey mahi,

Maybe you need to go to bed, man.

Sounds like it's late where you are and I certainly didn't mean to start anything personal here. I also kinda mentioned at the beginning of that post that I was going to ramble a little bit.

If you stayed up at 2:00 AM then to read it, that's your decision. But it's no reason to get personal with me, Man.

Honest- - go get some sleep man. Not sure what hot button I pushed here, but if I did please do accept my apologies.

Deker - as for your response - thanks for the links. That really was the kind of feeback I was looking for.

Nah - 'tis I who should be doing the apologizing...true - too personal makes people feel - that's bad...must stay wooden:D

but I stand by the second half of my post....

Umm - it's Mihai

Thanks - but I think I now understand this fourm.

This kind of behavior would not be allowed in most - especially toward new members.

Enjoy yourseles.

I'm outta here.

Sheesh - I wasn't expecting this....
Man - sorry if I hurt your feelings - no need to leave on my account...but if you're ready to leave a community because of what one member told you - especially after getting a response you were looking for as you said to deker....heh - maybe you're too fragile...

I hereby formally apologize and expect a spanking because of my sins (somebody spank me please )

JK Bowman, don't leave just because of one post man. I think you've gotten some good help in all of your other threads, and you were always good at asking intelligent questions with lots of details instead of just "hey how do i make this effect for my clan website D00d!!!111" like a lot of newbies do. Stick around a while!

Anyways, I think I will hijack this thread and start a discussion on the difference between photoshop skill and "designing."

I think there is a big difference. My main example is www.2advanced.com, frankly, I don't like that site at all and they don't seem like designers to me. They just learned a million things in Photoshop and Flash and stuck them together. Yeah, they've go skill, but they need an artistic eye on the team. They have trouble getting a point across quickly and effectively. Yes, this is my ignorant opinion and I have not bothered to look at their portfolio, but honestly, the first time I went to their site I thought it was for a video game. I don't like it. There are lots of good applications for Flash, but people seem to be over doing it. Threadless uses it well (although it could be done with DHTML and Javascript), but all the cheesy animations that add to the load time on 2A get annoying. In this age you need to be able to communicate quickly and effectively, and in my (very opinionated) opinion, I don't believe 2A accomplishes that.

When Bowman made the comment about just white sites with work that is called art. I think a white space is a great place for art, it doesn't provide a distraction (the notable exception to this is www.upsod.com, which rocks the black in white like Hendrix rocked the guitar).