Does anyone still believe this guy?

yes, there are some bad greedy teachers that want to guzzle all the money they can out of the school system. those are the teachers that are only teaching because of the great hours, and if it weren't for the high demand of teachers right now would never have gotten jobs. but it isnt fair to the good teachers to let some bad apples ruin the bunch.

you are right about unions being sucky. teachers practically have to kill someone to get fired. they can be transfered, but not fired.

for example: at my old high school we had a really bad principal. she imbezzled (sp?) funds, took money away from arts and computer programs to fund her pet football team, and never cared about the kids. problem: they couldnt prove any illegal activities so to get rid of her... they promoted her to a cushy downtown job.

Oh crap, google must have spidered this thread and now it's running a Kerry campaign donation banner... Yikes!!!!! Better update the code to no longer include images ;)

i'm not even arguing about kerry anymore, just trying to fix misconceptions regarding our public education.

What misconceptions are you trying to fix Penguin? The only misconception I remember is you totally missing what Kerry said.

Not related to this post particularly, but Kerry flashed the 'Black Power' sign at the same rally

What's the problem with that? I think that's kind of badass. Hell, if I was an old white presidential candidate I'd be using black words and expressions all the time. If John Kerry threw up the Black Powah sign, then there's some badass in there just waiting to break out.

Kerry is an idiot puppet, and I still don't like Bush anymore. I'm screwed...

Just vote for yourself. That's what I'm going to do when I get the power to vote. As long as you're exercising the right to vote, that's what is important.

Any teacher who demands a 5% raise every year should be fired....

that one. it's stupid that just because someone does a job they enjoy doing they shouldn't be rewarded for doing it well.

Mattboy - what's your beef with teachers, man?

I'm happy for your state - but mine's like 48th in every category. Education here needs some help. Perhaps it should be a state issued check... Maybe Iowa needs roads or help from a tornado, they could use money to fix those things, since your education system seems to be working.

A couple of my best friends are teachers - on one side of town, one teacher is on lockdown from guns in lockers, the other is trying to keep 4th graders from getting pregnant on the other side of town while teaching them not to sell coke - oh, and math and english! Both of them make under $30K a year. The cost of living here in Nevada is going up like crazy, and my friends are both considering going back to school to become something else, so they can keep up with the rest of the world.

Why shouldn't teachers be able to drive new cars and live in new homes like say... a bartender or a mechanic?

I say - pay teachers like you would a doctor, or a scientist - they all control the future. Don't just put the money into teachers, though - buy books, computers, buses, and pay the school's bills too.

'No child left behind' is a joke. Ask a teacher. Never met one that liked it.

that's my 2 cents... carry on.

thank you graphicsguy :-)

'No child left behind' is a joke.

soo true. its ironic: what schools really need is more support but less rules. districts and now the government decide what gets taught when and how, but when it comes down to the teaching most teachers, at least here in cali, get left high and dry.

Yeah thats what everyone has to deal here in my area. Class room goes from 30-35 people and teachers are forced to not only make sure every student is learning what the gov says but they've got to teacher more subjects and more classes. With all the changes the teachers don't get anything. It's not fair.

[QUOTE=mattboy_slim]Is there a thread title echo in here? Well, yes, but the echo resonation is coming back on the opposite side.

Today Kerry spoke to the NAACP, and this quote blew me out of the water:
How are better-paid teachers going to help schools at all? Schools cannot afford to provide band and art, but John Kerry wants to pay them better because it would give the students a first-rate education?? Where does that logic come from? I did a little investigation after work, and I found was that there is nothing that shows that teacher salaries equal better student performance. As a matter of fact, I found quite the opposite.
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Take my state for example: Iowa. Iowa is 2nd in SAT scores, and 8th on ACT scores in the country, yet we rank 28th in per-student-spending, and 38th in teacher salary pay. Per pupil spending in Iowa has only grown 21.9% in 20 years (1980 - 2000), ranking 42nd in that category.



Iowa ranked near the bottom on percentage of funds received from the federal government.

The District of Columbia ranks 51 (that's last) in academic achievement, yet ranks #7 for highest paid staff. California ranks 38 in academic achievement, yet ranks #6 for highest paid staff.

How again more money going to make better students? Over 70% of my graduating class (40 of 52) graduated with 3.0+ GPA.

2003 Report Card on American Education, Pages 108-110 specifically.

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Can someone please explain to me why the Democratic solution to every problem is to throw money at it? Throwing money to something only makes the beast bigger and hungrier.

Hey, this is a Photoshop forum, not a political forum. Just tell me to shut my mouth.[/QUOTE]

Before you start tossing numbers around as if they actually mean something, let's examine the average count of students per classroom.

Then lets examine to see if your teachers are far more qualified than they are in the lower states. Could this have something to do with funding?

I'll put it like this. In the state I live in (South Carolina) our education system is horrible. That is directly related to the fact that teachers would rather go to one of the neighboring states or one of the less impoverished districts and get paid more money. More money = More qualified teachers.

And judging a states education success/failure on SAT scores is a little silly, considering that those tests are still, to this day, culturally biased. How many whife folks you got up there in Iowa?