Quality Posts

I have a beef.

There are a number of people posting their work in the Showcase section of the forum that deserve a lot more respect and feedback then they are currently receiving. These people are brave enough to post their work and 95% of the respose they get is; "looks good", "nice job", "sweet", "awesome", etc...

Now it does feel good to have a handful of people come in and say it all looks good, but its so superficial and the intention is so see-through that it's insulting. POST COUNTS are all that seem to matter. These people would appreciate constructive criticism a lot more then "nice pic d00d". If all you have to say is it looks nice, point out why. Point out what catches your eye. A simple explanation why you like something will do wonders. Indepth critiques aren't always necessary. Just put some thought into it, that way it makes it look like you care about their work and not about your post count. Hell, a lot of you will probably learn a thing or two if you open your eyes some more. And repeating exactly what everyone else says doesn't help either.

I thought this forum was about helping each other? This can't be done if people aren't willing to talk to each other more. You can't expect to get better if there is no feedback. I have seen many posts with work that is average at best that had nothing but "good" remarks just because its a nice quick tally to the post count, then I have seen some remarkable work that got much more appropriate comments. People pointed out what could be improved to make the final a masterpiece. This is what we need with everyone, especially the newer Photoshop users.

I am just as guilty as most of you, I can probably find a handful of bad posts made by me in just the last day or two. In fact I did last night in the Website Showcase. But I like to keep them to a minimum, and I enjoy critiquing someones work. If they are a friend, I go in and say something silly, but I still like to point out the good or bad qualities. This forum is great because it has a friendly feel about it, but it's being abused. I really get the feeling that it is much more a hangout spot that everyone stresses over when its down, rather then a resource centre. When the site goes down, I have to bet that hardly any of you start to worry about the information stored here, rather you are worried about your member status and worried about what's happening in the Misc section.

It's funny how there are complaints about poor thread titles, but no one seems to care about the content. I think we need to start caring, and I believe a lot of us will start to see drastic improvements in our work. I am also now in favour of eliminating the post count, too many of you annoy the others with your one word responses (all the time). Although I think now that comment will piss people off and thats all the attention this thread will now receive.

cool

jk, you're absolutely right.
I tend, more and more, to post my work (client stuff, mostly) on other boards where I actually get some decent feedback, not just "cool" or "bleh". Now IMO the responsibility to give quality critique and pointers goes to the more experienced people around here, because a beginning designer replying to another beginning designer with pointers might just do more damage than good due to the fact that they're both new to the whole thing.

And if someone really likes something and has nothing to say, I think an occational "that's kickass" is alright, but as Spectra said, at least give the piece at hand a bit more thought, why did it strike you as "kickass"? The same doesn't go for "that sucks" though, as that's offending if you don't give any reason why you think it sucks, even if it really would be horrible. x)

As for post counting, I think it's pretty useless too. If someone needs that number to gain respect for themselves (or from others in their own minds), then it's pretty sad. Mind though, that a high postcount even if you're newregistered doesn't automatically mean you're a postwhore or a spammer.

On the other hand, I've seen on other boards that when a thread like this appears, people start to type like crazy all kinds of explanations and "artsy analyzing" taking place when it's obvious it's just a load of bullsh*t, and that people just type more, without more thought. I'm sure people here understand, I hope people read this thread and that it can make an impact.

Good observation, and a great thread you started here, Spectra. Allow me to pick up where you left off, if that's cool...

The problem is inherent in any critique session though. It's often a bunch of back-scratching or back-stabbing. hardly ever did I have a legit critique in college or professionally, until my current job, where my bosses will tell me if it's crap, in which case, I go back to the drawing board... maybe it's because some people can't handle the bad with the good. hell, it's your baby, and you can get all bent out of shape if someone tries to criticize it, therefore people are just nice out of respect for their feelings instead of respect for their potential.

It's pretty clear that some people in this forum are better pals with certain people. That's totally cool, but those are the people who can, should, and often do give a legitimate critique to a showcase design. If some stranger tells you to change a font or a color, half the time you'll tell them to stick it up their butt, instead of learning from them, or at least giving it a shot. Believe me, I've cussed at some of you when I post work, and I'm not sorry for it. Sometimes it's a bigger d**k competition in here, for some reason. the whole industry is like that though...

Maybe this thread can change all that. Let people assume we're here to help each other out as designers and artists, not to get off on some major ego trip. There is definitely different levels of designers here (I started photoshopping when some of you were in freakin' diapers!) but, I think we should use that as a good thing, not to intimidate people from posting their work or commenting when something needs a little fixing.

I blame it on the n00bs. As always. :D.


I dunno, it just seems to me as of late, there have been a lot of morons showing how moronic they really are, and this forum is slowly loosing the maturity it had and its respect in relationship with memebers. It is sad to see, all the veterans getting up and leaving or just being tired of this situation, everyone just needs to really set back a few notches and relax....Or maybe I said too much.

I have also noticed this, and really dislike when this happens to my thread or someone else's thread. I'm sure you can find quite a few posts by me that say very little but for the most part I have been an advocate of meaningful posts since I got here. (see: http://www.teamphotoshop.com/forum/vbforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18945&highlight=red) By looking at some of my posts in the showcase forums I think you will see that I try to do this and get others to do this, too. I'm not trying to say that I never post little "nice stuff" crap - everybody does I think.

But I also dislike when people post "new artwork" as a subject and "what do you think? - link" as the body. IMO, they don't really deserve any sort of lengthy reply, as it isn't clear that they really care about what they have done. I guess its OK for people that we know around here to do that (Paavo comes to mind - he can post "shoes" and have 4 links and we know that he worked a long time on them but the quality of them, etc.), but for the most part, I think that users should post more information regarding their artwork. That would include purpose, programs, tools, stock photos, where they got the inspiration, what they like about it, what they are doubtful about, what they are wondering about, a request for comments, etc.

I'm not sure if its necessary to have a sticky thread or anything (maybe it is) - if this thread gets enough views then maybe that means that people get the message and will try to be a little bit less liberal with their posting habits in the future. Hopefully.

tom

*edit (he posted while I was) - perhaps you're referring to a certain individual in the "we got saddam" thread lately, msz?

I haven't been able to read that thred due the the stupidity emiting from it. lol. But, nah, maybe just in general, and maybe one of the individuals I am speaking of is in there.

your right spectra, I can't help but agree.
The point of posting your work is to get feed back to help one improve as an artist ... and grr paavo! you beat me to the "cool" post :\ I really wanted to do that!

We need a clapping smiley on this board!!!!

Good thread. It should be a sticky er something!

Now its a strange issue....cause everyone has a different skill level so the the variety in quality posts will fluctuate greatly.....but i do agree overall the quality of opinions (seperate from skill) are lacking (to be nice).

I really get the feeling that it is much more a hangout spot that everyone stresses over when its down, rather then a resource centre.

sorry to mention this (this isnt an advertisment...for once :D).......but if we all want a "hangout" we have IRC. Also Pank was nice enough to change the webchat address....so its working for those who dont use IRC. Also IRC is another resource ppl. For "quick" help u can log on and ask (note zyco's thread in the PS help section). Also that just shows ppl abuse resources. In all the months since zyco's post...not more than 2 ppl have come in and asked for help. Seriously live help?? i would jump at the chance.

I dunno, it just seems to me as of late, there have been a lot of morons showing how moronic they really are, and this forum is slowly loosing the maturity it had and its respect in relationship with memebers. It is sad to see, all the veterans getting up and leaving or just being tired of this situation, everyone just needs to really set back a few notches and relax....Or maybe I said too much.

I really cant call myself a veteran........but notice the massive post count drop and lack of responses from myself.

Total Posts: 918 (3.87 posts per day)

PPl who *had* the same general amount as me...have atleast a couple hundred more now. Not that i care....but it shows how much interest i have lost (and others as well) due to all these reasons!

Currently im browsing CGtalk.com.....and there system is 1) all noob posters have to have there post/responses approved! 2) all responses have to have meaning and info (the mods will delete a "hey thats cool. good job" reply faster than lightning (if the users dont jump on your ass and yell at you first). Now i would absolutely hate to see the team end up like that. I hate such tight-ass boards...but maybe thats whats needed these days???

I dunno. Im just gald......though im guilty like everyone else of 1 liners and "basic" posts......that i have pulled more than my weight on many occasions when replying. I just wish others would follow...

I think there's also the problem with newbies praising people who still need to work on skills A LOT, which gets their ego going and making them think they're number one; which leads to this egocentric pompous attitude that ultimately ends up in some sort of flame war.