Reviews, updates and in depth guides to your favourite mobile games - AppGamer.com
|
|
Are we aliens? |
Page: 1 2 3 4 | Reply |
Oct 28th 2003 | #126781 Report |
Member since: Dec 13th 2002 Posts: 904 |
About the whole religion thing. I don't believe in religion. It's just ... a little too far fetched. I believe it's a myth, however, it wasn't created to be a myth, it was created to sort of set a moral system. For example, the Christian religion (yeah, I'm gonna pick on Christians today) says that God has a plan for all of us. Yet, they also say that God created us to have the choice to lay our own path. But then ... they don't believe in fate. If God has a plan and knows exactly what is going to happen to us and what choices we are going to make ... then our lives are already written out on paper and that is fate. But, what I don't understand is if God created us to make choices that will influence whether we make it into 'Heaven' or not, and he already knows the outcome, then why would he have even created us at all? Not only that, but wouldn't that also defeat the purpose of giving us choice? It would be like watching a rerun on TV. You already know what's going to happen ... but you don't change the channel because there's nothing else on TV. The Bible says that God created everything. You know the story, so I won't go into it and explain it. Now, if you have ever paid any attention in history, there were hundreds of religions before Christianity ... even before Judaism, which is the basis for Christianity. This brings up a totally new argument, and I'll wait to go into it. But if there is only one god, and it is the god that both Christians, Catholics, and Jews believe in ... then why wasn't the religion around since the begining of time? Wouldn't it make sense? I mean ... if you were Adam or Eve and you knew as they did that there was only one god ... wouldn't you have spread the word? Anyway, along to another argument. I'm gonna have to pick on Christians again. God said not to serve anyone but him. No idols at all. None. If you think about it, to the Christians, Jesus is somewhat of an idol. In every Christian church, you see his body hanging from the cross ... a statue ... a tribute to him. Now, in the Bible, it's said that Satan can play some of the most wicked and blinding tricks ever. He can trick even the holiest person. What if Jesus was Satan's counterpart? A way to make people begin worshiping an Idol? All he had to do ... was say that Jesus and God are one, which kinda tells you ... it's okay to pray to Jesus (which many Christians do) because he is the same as God, as is the Holy Spirit. It's funny. Christians ridicule Catholics for worshiping Mary as they themselves worship Jesus. Christians ridicule Jews for not worshiping Jesus. Jews ridicule Christians and Catholics for believing in the New Testament. Etc, etc., etc. Then ... all these religions wonder why all of this is so hard to believe. Now how did this go from aliens to religion? |
Reply with Quote Reply |
Oct 28th 2003 | #126787 Report |
Member since: Apr 25th 2003 Posts: 1977 |
The "religious debate" ended with dinosaurs.........anything can happen i guess... |
Reply with Quote Reply |
Oct 29th 2003 | #126837 Report |
Member since: Oct 6th 2002 Posts: 1003 |
Has everything had a name since the beginning of time? Obviously not. Meaning that things like Religions were divided after the battle lines were drawn, so to speak, regarding opinions on what flavor of belief one subscribes to. Furthermore, now we get into a theological discussion wherein a distinct separation must be made, specifically in terms of religion vs. faith, which are two very different things. Think of it this way, and since you used christianity, I guess I will too. Religion is, for lack of a better term, the 'DMV' of faith. What do I mean? I mean that having one's liscense has nothing to do with ones ability to drive, but, given our society, there are a certain set of repercussions incurred when on decides not to pursue 'conventional' methods of getting their license (Pursuing God) they are still fully able to drive, but now must do so often in contradiction to the licensing organization (DMV, "Church") Now, I know that this isn't the most accurate description, but there's not really a good way to draw the separation, and there is a separation, as far as this is concerned. Religion is an in institution of man, meaning that it is every bit as flawed as government, and society as a whole. More often than not, religion, and the deity, and/or core principle(s) of the religion are lumped together, and resultantly, any negative experiences that one has within the construct of a religion, reflect upon the deity and/or principle of a religion, and the typical response becomes this: If there is a church official (Priest, Pastor, so on) who fails to exemplify the principles of their religion, this is not a reflection upon their god. It is a testament to the fact that religion is a societal construct, comprised of a hierarchy of people who are no less human than you and I. Meaning that if someone comes across as somewhat disagreeable, or just an outright jerk, that they are in no way a reflection upon God, even though some would often like to think so. This is also exemplified in recent events in the catholic church. I do not believe that these people are 'appointed by God', but I do believe that they want to devote their life to finding out what they can about him. They do so, however by adhering to the regulations of a man made institution, which some have, apparently, been unable to do. Um...No. For one, you do not find such items in every church. Furthermore, the items to which you are referring are icons, rather than idols. The difference is that an icon is a symbol of a person. An idol is an arbitrary image, which is not a symbol of an actual thing, but rather an embodiment of a belief or principle, and not a remembrance of an actual person. In regard to your other argument regarding the potential that jesus was in some way either allied and/or in fact one with satan, the only answer I can give is...no. Just...no I mean, the argument you've made quite simply doesn't make any sense. There's too many biblical contradictions and holes in your argument to really even discuss that. So, to answer the above, Religion is not necessarily right. There is no flavor of christianity that is more right than the other, but there are some that are better equipped to answer your questions by encouraging you to seek your own. If one seeks only to learn as much about religion as is preached by the same person, from the same pulpit, then yes, it becomes harder and harder to put any stock in religion. Now, on a more personal note, for one who claims not to believe in religion, you seem to know more than one who has absolutely no interest in it. I'm going to assume that you're one of the many who was dragged to church every sunday by their mothers, and while there you were either bored out of your mind, or faced some nature of condemnation for a given activity, or saw blatant hypocrisy on a daily basis, depending who it was that you would see outside of church. All I can say to that is that yes, that is religion. Religion isn't God. Religion is an attempt at setting up a system, or establishing a process whereby we can understand/know God. It is not the best way, but it's a start, and an attempt. In order to better understand it's good aspects, you must seek your own understanding of what it is you believe. |
Reply with Quote Reply |
Oct 29th 2003 | #126851 Report |
Member since: Dec 13th 2002 Posts: 904 |
In responce to that entire answer, what I was saying was that history reveals that Jewdaism was the first religion to have a single god, instead of 4 or 5 or even more. If there is one god ... wouldn't a religion with a basis of a single god have exsisted since ... well ... since we can account for? Dude, I live in Oklahoma ... one of the strong points for the "bible belt" in the US. I mean ... at every corner (literally) you will see a church, and honestly, I've entered many of them, so I know that every Christian church has a statue of Jesus somewhere in the Church and it's usually very large and visible. Christians say that Catholics worship Mary as an Idol, and Catholics say the same thing about Christians when it comes to Jesus, so ... whos to say that Jesus is just a manifestation of evil created to draw the attention from a particular thing such as, God? And about Mary being a virgin when she became pregnant. Yeah ... right. She was married ... what married couple hasn't had sex? I mean ... get real ... we are human and sex is a natural and major impulse in our mind no matter what you say. Especially when you are married to someone (then you have the right, by god, law, and anything else to have sex so you know for a fact that if you are married, you are going to have sex ... no matter what anyone says). The only reason I could see that one would have sex when they are married to someone would be ... well ... either one is gay or the other is a lesbian. I mean ... put it into a real perspective. Reality. God, in the bible, has warned people very harshley about how Satan can persuade and trick mankind into believing what is not true. This includes the possiblity that Jesus may infact be something brought up by the devil himself. If he really wanted to, he could infect the bible and twist it up so bad that you would think God is the devil and the devil is God. I mean, think about it. All a god would want is for you to have faith in HIM ... not a religion ... which pretty much gives my point about why I don't believe in religion ... it's man-made, no matter how much you want to argue the fact. Everything in this world is man-made. If god really wanted to show himself, he would, and I garantee that everone on this planet would know about it. He wouldn't try to keep it a secret. He wouldn't sit there and say "oh, well ... I'm not gonna proove I exsist ... I'll just let them make up there own minds" .... then ... the funny thing would be when god shows himself and hes a frikkin donkey. Oh ... damn ... the whole time we were supposed to worship a donkey. Damn. Don't we just feel stupid? I mean, c'mon ... think about it. If the devil exsisted ... he could make you believe anything he wanted. This is HIS world. Or that's what the Christian faith tells us anyway. Do you get what my drunk arse is sayin? Even though it probably doesn't make sense. |
Reply with Quote Reply |
Oct 30th 2003 | #126996 Report |
Member since: Oct 6th 2002 Posts: 1003 |
Again, this is just not true. Case in point, my church does not have such an item in it. Furthermore, as I said above, the crucifix is an icon, not an idol. If you were familiar with Byzantine art, which was in many respects the cradle of christianity, there was no worship of the items themselves, and the power held therein, but they stood as symbols of God, and the principles of the bible. According to the bible, Mary was pregnant with Jesus before her wedding to Joseph, which meant, to everyone else, that she was not a virgin, and that Joseph and her had allegedly sinned, though, once again biblically they had not. Given the regulations of jewish society, she ran the risk of being completely blacklisted from every facet of society, for bearing a child out of wedlock. In regard, once again to the notion that the bible is all a lie perpetuated by satan, your argument itself contradicts itself, in that you don't clarify which side you're on. Do you believe that there is a God? Furthermore, you acknowledge that there is apparently a devil. Now, if there is a devil, why is there not also a God? Furthermore, why is the only option that you see, rather than the bible being a work of fiction, is that, as you say, it's a lie perpetuated by the devil. Once again, we come to the same argument, I do not agree with many of the regulations of religion, but I do agree with the regulations set forth in the bible. Also, as I said before, if you have become jaded with religion, then seek the answers that religion has failed to provide you by seeking them through your own study of the bible. |
Reply with Quote Reply |
Oct 30th 2003 | #126997 Report |
Member since: May 27th 2002 Posts: 1028 |
One interesting thing I found in reading the book of Galatians is that Paul the Apostle is telling the Church of Galatia that their focus is all wrong. They were so bent out of shape about the world's immoral influence corrupting their obedience to the law. Paul says that what they really need to do is make sure that their obedience to the law doesn't get in the way of them following Christ. The Jewish Law was used as a standard for wealth and popularity, the important people were the religious ones; those who followed the law. It also divided classes in the society, at the very top were the Jews, who followed the law like it was the end all and be all. Then were the Samaritans who were moral, and respected the law, but they did their own thing too. Then at the bottom were the Gentiles who didn't believe in anything, or I guess believed in everything. Christ came to fufill the law, so it no longer has that bind on the Jews. Paul is speaking out directly against the religious institution of Judaism because it is becoming a hindrance to the Gospel. The greatest argument against religion is when Jesus turned the tables of the temple over. The leaders of the religion had turned the purpose of the Temple from a place to worship God to a place to feel inferior to the religious leaders. The idea of God knowing everything before it happens and who gets into heaven is called predestination. It's a weird thing to think about, but so is the idea that God existed when time didn't. Basically God doesn't hinder our free will, but he knows what will ultimately happen to us. If you really want to get into it you can look up the Five Points of Calvinism. The Fifth is the idea of limited atonement, that Christ died for those who would eventually be saved as opposed to everybody....Man, I just got really off track. I don't think I'm going much of anywhere with this rambling, but keep asking questions dude. Jesus and all his deciples encouraged Christians to question their faith, so that they might research it and learn for themselves it cannot be contested. |
Reply with Quote Reply |
Oct 30th 2003 | #127000 Report |
Member since: May 27th 2002 Posts: 1028 |
Okay, Adam and Eve, and their children all the way to today had considered the existence of God a fact. They had walked with him in the Garden and I'm pretty sure they knew he was there. Since They were the first people and therefore there is no religion older than Judaism. Where Prodestants, Catholics and Jews disagree is in their interpretations of the Bible. The biggest thing is Jews don't believe Jesus was the messiah. They're still waiting for him, and if you've ever looked at a Jewish calendar you'd know they haven't found a messiah yet. Catholics are much more religious in their use of icons and traditional, cerimonial ways of worship; as well as a different idea about church government. I think many Catholics are guilty of what Paul was talking about in Galatians. They let their religion become the focal point. Showing up for mass, kneeling the right way, crossing the right way, observing Ash Wednesday, going to confessions etc... It's so much stuff set up to honor the religion and those running it that it distracts from getting to know Jesus. |
Reply with Quote Reply |
Oct 30th 2003 | #127012 Report |
Member since: Oct 6th 2002 Posts: 1003 |
Well said, Random.
|
Reply with Quote Reply |
Oct 30th 2003 | #127056 Report |
Member since: Oct 28th 2003 Posts: 10 |
Hmm.. ok heres another theory, one i like to throw at people and make them think i believe. Whether i do, thats another story. Aliens, Ok The "Big Bang" happened (As far as i know christianity doesnt dispute this, just say that God caused it, either way it doesnt matter) The organisms were spread throughout the universe and when they ended up somewhere hospitable (i,e survived), developed through evolution (generally accepted scientific theory). We werent the only ones to survive, there are others out there. There technological state is more advanced than ours because our politics caused an enormous setback (known as the middle ages). Just think where we'd be with an extra 500yrs (i think, my history sucks) of technological growth. They have visited and maybe in another post i'll explain how their spaceships work. They showed me. So there you have it, the history of the universe :P And to answer the original question. Yes we are (at some stage) Hey, I gotta keep myself entertained somehow. |
Reply with Quote Reply |
Oct 31st 2003 | #127106 Report |
Member since: Mar 24th 2003 Posts: 586 |
Pganguly...that was very well put. Man, I couldn't have said it better myself. Truly God is not religion. Idolatry About idol worship or images in Christian churches. I haven't seen any of that to be honest with you. I've been to many, and I haven't seen anything like that. Revelation and Revolution We fully understand that in the prophetic utterances of Isaiah the prophet, there is only one God, and this is understood and believed throughout the Old Testament. The time of the Law, however, according to the Apostle Paul's letter to Galatia, was that the Law was a school master until we came to the fullness of faith. The problem with the law was that they made it a religion. But God doesn't dwell in that. When King Solomon, the son of King David, had built the temple, it was revealed that God does not dwell in temples made by hands, that not even the heavens of heavens can contain Him. There are many thing that people create and try to get God to dwell in, but the truth is He doens't abide in man made objects that try to substitute His presence. There is no way. So we have religion and folks trying to believe in some kind of carved piece of something for hope. Again, we hear the prophet Isaiah reprimanding the people of Israel for having made such images. But that was the attitude of the law; to build a visible faith. Nonetheless it was the prophet Hosea who declared, "The just shall live by faith." This was later reiterated by the Apostle Paul to Galatia, in stating that one who lives for God, lives in faith. The unseen. Now someone may come and say, "Well how can I believe in what I cannot see?" But the Bible emphatically states that God is light. Take a look at light, you can't see it. You can only see the source releasing it, and the objects it bounces off of, but you can't see the light. Take heliarching, the highest form of light, and working with it, simlar to welding or soldering. The light however, is absolutely invisible, but will melt the strongest metal like butter. There are things that the naked eye cannot see. So it is with God. Seeing is not always beleiving, but believing is always seeing. And that doens't mean deception, that means understanding. For in the counsel of God there are only several things that you can understand via knowledge and wisdom, which when fused together bring about understanding. With understanding, we tend to then observe the evidence to conclude what is true, and what is not. But to simply look at the bible as a myth or a lie and dismiss it's evidence, apparently displays a lack of understanding. Not so much in the bible, but that we lock into our own preferences and reject what is truth. So the problem with the law was that it was made into a visible practice which was repititious. But in Psalms 51:16-19 we understand that his highness King David stated to God, "You don't desire burn offerings, for the sacrifices of God are a broken heart and a contrite spirit, oh God thou wilt no despise." This was after King David had comitted adultery with Bathsheeba, and came clean before the Lord. What he was supposed to do was take a sin offering to the high priest and confess. But here we see King David had understanding of what pleased God. And he found grace in the time of the law and God forgave King David. This was beyond traditional law, it was a revelation, for this is what occurs when one seeks God wholeheartedly. And this revelation produces a revolution to change what is customarily known and traditionally practiced, which is a religion that tries to replicate God's presence and falsely places trust in objects and works, or acts one may think please God. It breaks the shackles of religion which lacks the demonstrative power of God. Mary's Marriage Mary was not married prior to being impregnated by the Spirit of God. She was a woman of virtue unto whom God showed favor. So to say that Mary was married and had sex is incorrect. Well, these are my two cents here, just thoght I'd add 'em in. ;) Shalom ~ Peace In The Name Of Y'shua Ha Mashiach ~ Jesus the Messiah. |
Reply with Quote Reply |
Page: 1 2 3 4 | Back to top |
Please login or register above to post in this forum |
© Web Media Network Limited. All rights reserved. No part of this website may be reproduced without written permission. Photoshop is a registered trademark of Adobe Inc.. TeamPhotoshop.com is not associated in any way with Adobe, nor is an offical Photoshop website. |