DEBATE: Should 16-year-olds be allowed to drive?

I can tell you why you're allowed to joint he army at 18.

It's because the government needs people, young people, strong people, to be soldiers. The younger and healthier, the better.

At 18, according tot he law, you should not have been drinking at all, nor smoking. You're healthy. Healthier than a 21 year old who's been drinking and smoking for the past 3 years.

Ziklen also proves a point; taking life is something that takes an instant. If you feel bad about it afterwards, well, there's nothing you can do about it, but at least the action of taking life took an instant.

Making life is a different story. Having a child will be a burden for you for 20 years of your life as a parent who shelters and feeds the child (hopefully a burden with great benefits anyway). And you stay a parent to that child for the rest of your life, provided you aren't attacked early by rabid weasels and eaten to death.

Jeez... I feel like I can't even have an intelligent conversation because I get attacked for my age.... Of course I can't know anything, everyone who is 20 and older must be a genius compared to me. I guess I'll be a moron until I'm at least 25, then I'll miraculously be smart like you guys and then I can ridicule stupid little 15 year olds who CAN'T know what they're talking about no matter what...

This is quite possibly THE most IGNORANT comment yet.

No one is calling you an idiot. No one is saying that you know nothing until you're 20. Absolutely not. But what we're saying is that a 20 year old has 5 more years of experience and knowledge than you do, and that's not a point you can fight!

Jesus. You speak as if you've experienced these things, and that you know all about how 18 year olds isn't a change from 16 year olds, where at the same time you haven't even experienced that part of your life yet!!! You couldn't possibly know what the changes would be until you have lived through them yourself!

It's like not being able to understand the true pain of, for example, adolescense, until you have been through it yourself.
The same goes for people who have never had children telling parents how to handle their kids.

Furthermore, if you think that 2 years isn't a big deal - well, rodder said it before. Consider the differences that occur between 10-12, or between 12-14, or between 14-16. Can you honestly say that all those years, you've had no change?

The honest truth is that you're not putting up an argument that could truly be considered a worthwhile statement. All this "there's no difference between 16 and 18," or the (edit: grrr) c o c k y attitude of "I'm wayyyy more mature than other 16 year olds! I'd be a way better driver, even without driving experience!" Many things about driving, i.e. curtesy, self-control, etc... they're all things that you learn over time, whether you drive or not.

And then you keep saying "that's not what i meant..." Say what you mean the first time!

Plus the fact that you're 15 or 16, and stating these things... that deducts from your credibility too.

Look at me. I'm 15. I don't pretend to know what happens past 15 years of age. I know what I know, and what I don't know, is what i'll find out eventually. It's only a matter of time.

The bottom line is that you're impatient. You want that liscence, NOW! You're not stopping to consider at length what danger you could put the pedestrians and fellow drivers at if all 16 year olds were allowed to drive like they're 18 or 20.

And one more thing, you're being rebellious. That's fine. Like it was mentioned before, the youth and rebellion are as one. The youth of society going against society - that is as natural as breathing.

Um...I think you're only loosely considered an adult at 18, I certainly don't think of any 18yr olds I know as adults. They're basically fresh out of high school usually, and still don't really know that much about the world and stuff...But at 18 you've most likely studied at least some stuff about the US government and you are supposed to loosely know the basics of how the system works, besides, most young people don't vote anyways, and the ones that do usually know enough to make a sensible vote. The ones that you wouldn't want voting usually don't anyway, they don't know when/how, or even if they do they could care less and would rather not waste their time going to the polls...

The government does plenty of things regulating peoples' personal lives/choices as adults besides drinking. I'm sure you're aware that suicide is illegal, they're limiting you're legal ability to cause yourself harm. Besides, when you're drunk you can hurt people other than yourself, even if you aren't in a car...unless you have some sober/sensible people that are stronger than you making sure you don't do anything stupid to hurt other people...Various drugs are illegal for the same reason, to try and prevent people from harming themselves (oh yeah, killing yourself hurts other people too, it costs money for one, and 'causes stress/mourning over your death, usually at least, unless nobody likes you, but people generally have at least a few friends if not a family that care about them, killing yourself also takes you out of the economy, which means a slightly smaller work force and one less consumer for people to get money from...) Uh oh...I'm ranting now, I should stop.

Please feel free to correct any of the above, 'cause I don't remember what I wrote :p
On with the never ending thread! :D

EDIT:
Watch it there supa, looks like you're getting too excited ;)
What was I going to say...?
Well one thing, killing someone shouldn't be taken lightly either...I can't speak from experience, and I hope I never have to, but from what I understand (I've had grandparents and older friends that were in wars/battles) killing someone burdens you for the rest of your life. Even if you don't believe in the christian faith or some other faith that makes a point that killing is bad, most people usually have some small sense of morality in them, and when ya kill, even if it was someone trying to kill you, it takes something out of you. Perhaps it takes a little bit of your humanity out of you, both making and taking life stay with you a lifetime (even if your kid dies before you, which sucks as a parent, you still feel them after death, and you feel the guilt of killing someone, or some other kind of feeling from killing someone, and seeing them dead by your hands also tends to stick with you...)
There was something else though...I know it wasn't that and I know it's not the next thing I'm gonna talk about, oh well
True, a lot can happen in two years, in fact, a lot can happen in two seconds, or two minutes, or two hours. You can be killed in two seconds, someone you care about could leave your life, which usually affects character I think, really fast too. The difference between 16 and 18 usually is high school and college, very big changes. But also, a person can change very little in 2 yrs, people can stay the same their entire adult life. Everything's relative, generalizations are bad, there are exceptions to everything, it's all case by case... :p
Anyway, keep it happy and not too heated, less exclamation marks and everyone should be able to stay happy and cool headed

supahsekzy:

Again... Why can't you just take my statements and argue against them or agree against them...? What If I had said I was 25? Is there really a difference in the points I'm making?

I would say I'm much different than when I was 13, but I still have the same basic views... I'm the same person as two years ago, and I would say the same thing I'm saying now two years ago or in two years, although possibly not explaining as well two years ago, or explaining better in two years...

And how am I rebellious? How can you even tell that from a message board? What do you mean by rebellious there? I'm not rebellious as in I never listen to my parents are drink or do drugs, etc... And I'm 15 and still don't have my permit, I'm not sure if I'll be getting my license as soon as I'm 16 or not, i have plenty of time to decide, and no car to drive anyways (my parents won't give me a car, I have to buy one). But I'll have friends who can drive anyway. The main reason I want to drive is just to go places without having to have my parents take me. I don't have tons of friends I would drive around with anyhow, my 2 best friends live an hour away and I only have 2 or 3 other really good friends I would drive around with here... It would also give me the ability to go to my friend's house without being a hassle to my parents. Although I could be considered rebellious against many parts of society and government... I hope I never change in that way. I'll be quite sad the day I just start accepting things because someone else said so or because it's the law and has to be right.

And did you not read my message? I don't think 18 year olds should be drinking either, but I think it's their choice. You say that you can get hurt when you're drunk, or hurt others, or not be in good shape, but that happens with people over 21 as well. I'm saying the law is wrong and should be changed, or the age for joining the army, voting, and the hundred other things you can do should be moved to 21. Why can you do one adult thing, but not another...?

The honest truth is that you're not putting up an argument that could truly be considered a worthwhile statement. All this "there's no difference between 16 and 18," or the ****y attitude of "I'm wayyyy more mature than other 16 year olds! I'd be a way better driver, even without driving experience!" Many things about driving, i.e. curtesy, self-control, etc... they're all things that you learn over time, whether you drive or not.

If this is what you think all of been saying, then you have quite obviously not been reading everything I've been saying.... That was a small part of my point, maybe you should go back and re read my posts?

Oh, and that post you ridiculed as being ignorant was in response to another ignorant post:

Well at least you'll be safe for six months. I'll be sure to keep an eye for a 16 and a half year old dumbass on the road after that...

It seems to me that part of my posts are being read and not all, or that people are taking parts of posts and exxagerating them when I say things as example. I've been saying what I mean and am being taken out of context...

I just want you to read my posts fully, the whole thing, and read them as if I am just another human being, not by my age, even if I am inexperienced, it does not make my views incorrect.

Oh, and I think my parents agree that driving should be kept at 16 and that whatever age you're considered an adult should be the legal drinking age.

At 18 I think drinking should be legal, but not taken lightly. I'd hope any parents would still strongly advise against it. But I would say the samething about when you are 21.

My whole point with the drinking issue is that the government shouldn't be controlling things like this, it should be parents, family, and personal decisions.

Besides, I don't think it works anyway... Many young people get drunk anyway. I know my brother has gottwen drunk once or twice (although it was on a camping trip with his friends and not while driving). I would rather he didn't (and I've told him), but I see it as his decision. I think he's smart enough to make his own decisions.

Heh, this reminded me of something... I was at a restaraunt and a group came in that was all drunk and being loud and obnoxious--I don't think one of them was younger than 30.

Ziklen:
Yeah, all those things too, but I was just using voting and the army as examples ;) And another thing I'm saying is the government should stop regulating quite so much. They should only change things to protect everyone (like national defense) and stuff where others get hurt from one's actions (drunk driving, murder, etc), but after 18 shouldn't have laws about things such as drinking while not driving, censorship, etc. (I know censorship isn't bad now, same with other things, but it seems to me like they are limiting people and things every year more and more...)

Off topic info below:




102 replies. We are about to bypass the religious debate @ 109 :-). But lets not end this one talking about dinosaurs...... :-P

Dinosaurs? I'm confused :confused: , I'm guessing it has to do with the religious debate that I don't really feel like looking for right now. And why didn't I get to join in on that one, I guess I joined too late. Debates are fun, anyways one topic...sort of

Again, let's try to be nice :p . You have every right to be a little ticked Ryujin, if I were you it would certainly seem everyone was against me, but I'm sure they're not (right everyone?) Just take it all lightly. Both you and supa are pretty young, and although it doesn't invalidate your opinions (the only way I could think someone's opinion should be discarded is if they're not truly of their right mind...like drunk, or on drugs, insane, had brain damage, something to that effect...). Um...I got called away while I was writing this so I lost my train of thought... :p

I dunno if rebellious is quite the right word...it's just that teens in general tend to have a feeling that makes them try and take an opposing view sometimes...not all the time with all teens, but sometimes...Maybe disagreeable, or someword like that would be better? I dunno...

Oh yeah, another thing...although your personality might not change much from 13-15 or 15-18, I can almost guarantee you that you will, if nothing else, at least be more hesitant in giving the same opinion you have now. Your views are going to change, because things are going to happen in your life. If you're brother dies in a drunk driving accident your views might change...(don't say you've thought aobut that and you still have the same opinion, experiencing something is far different...).

I'll let you learn more before I start shooting your opinions/ideas down about the government. I hardly know enough to say what the government hould or shouldn't regulate in our lives, and I've at least studied some political science. It's not that your opinions/ideas are bad, they're just ill-informed because you haven't had the experience yet (or at least I highly doubt you have). I'm a little conservative and a little liberal, regulation can be good...to an extent. I think 21 is a good age as is in the US, if we try dropping it at all, things could get ugly...or at least a little uglier...I'm not quite sure what you mean by censuring...you mean limiting ability to listen to certain music/watch different things/play various games? To some extent I'd agree, but this isn't really a debate about violence in the media and its effect on people, and how regulation should be fitted accordingly, although, due to the nature of the debate on hand I see nothing wrong with going that direction...:p I rather like that the government helps people not make stupid mistakes by setting up various laws...

Well, I was just saying as an example that I don't want censoring to go too far or things similar. I agree the government needs to do some stuff, but I don't want them to go too far. Unless it's life threatening or VERY important, I feel it's better for individuals to make their own mistakes and correct them and learn from them, and for their family to help them. You can't just seclude people from everything that's bad, because then they DO get rebellious ;)

I mainly mean(t) that things are pretty good how they are now. As I said drinking should probably be 18 or 19 IMO, but they're not gonna stop people from getting what they want anyway. I think most things are fine how they are, and they should stop while they are ahead for making most laws, unless something big and new comes up...

;)

:| I jerk to the wheel too much. :|

:| I jerk to the wheel too much. :|

Thats nothing. I dont have enough fingers on the wheel. I like to drive with 2 fingers only (middle and pointer holding the lower left part of the steering wheel...like a hook lol). It isnt that easy on large turns though lol.

Anyway dont let me turn this into a bad habit thread! I may have an odd driving style...but i have experience and knowledge to back it up :-)







(*tries to stir up anger with the word experience)

3 o' clock and 9 o' clock >>> 7 o' clock and 5 o' clock?