We're at war

no, maybe not.. bu why can Bush do it then? Saddam made it clear that we wouldnt leave iraq before the ultimatum.

Bush can do it because he CAN back up what he said, which is exactly what he's doing right now. If Saddam told Bush to get out of the US, what can he do besides launch missiles that have a maximum range of 300 miles? I don't think that'll really convince Bush to leave his comfy protected country.

no, but he knew with 100% that Saddam wouldnt leave..

when i said, try turtning it around i just wanted you too see if Bush would leave if Saddam had the advangetes Bush has..

but nevermind... i just asked

No, Spectra, I wasn't personally flaming you. I was directing my flame at people who quote rhetorical, liberal crap which has no substance in real world problems, and expect you to go, "Ooooo, wow, I never thought about it that way.... you're right, "No War for Oil, No War for Oil, No War for Oil, No War for Oil!" Now, if my description applies to you, then maybe I did call you a name.

LOL @ *NL*:

über-evil-anti-war-european-bastard

Zvansen: You fail to realize that Bush knew Saddam would never leave. It was simply "Political Plausible Deniability", ie., Bush can say, "I gave Saddam an alternative. It was Saddam's choice not to leave". It's all about politics--there, I answered one of your questions. NOW, you guys still have not answered my primary question. WHAT IS A VIABLE ALTERNATIVE TO WAR WITH IRAQ? I agree war is not a great choice. War never is. I don't think anyone here would say with a loud voice, "I say we blow the ****ers up," (to quote Booger from Revenge of the Nerds). Well, okay, maybe I do have that sound byte on my puter at work, and maybe I do play it at moments that need comic releif. BUT, I have never contended that war is the best choice--IT IS THE ONLY CHOICE. In the face of the great evil and possible world destruction facing us in Saddam, 12 years of politics have failed; sanctions have crippled his people, not the leader; there are enough ****es in the world (like France) willing to take his money and sell him high-end weapons materials; his regime must fall. It will not fall in the natural course of events--he will eventually die, but his sons are even worse. He and his sons must be removed.... and NOW is the time. When all rhetoric fails, when diplomacy fails, SOMEONE must stand up and say NO MORE. The US and the UK at least have the balls to get their hands dirty and bring about change.

Now, if you want to advocate something meaningful, you should start politicing for your country to stand up and help bring about REAL democratic reform in Iraq when this is all over. Help dump money and sweat into building a stable country in a terribly disturbed part of the world. THAT would mean something to the world. Anti-war slogans are only breeding chaos at this point. Try something useful... "REBUILD A FREE IRAQ... and give us some oil " <

i know Bush knew Saddam wouldnt leave Iraq.. I just think its a silly, and non-usefull, ultimatum.. but nevermind that..

i dont know any alternative.. i cant say anything just like that, there you have it.. im no politician.. maybe war is the only solution.. But why fight for the people in Iraq to get a democracy, which apperently doesnt work in other parts of the world ?? as said, in Denmark 63% are against the war.. still we support Bush, Blair and so on..

okay.. im no politician. im just saying my oppenion based on the facts i happen to know

Originally posted by !mo0chan!
Bush can do it because he CAN back up what he said, which is exactly what he's doing right now. If Saddam told Bush to get out of the US, what can he do besides launch missiles that have a maximum range of 300 miles? I don't think that'll really convince Bush to leave his comfy protected country.

True.
That also indicates the phrase "clear and present threat" is bull****.

Saddam could always send over some suicidal maniac. Iraq is probably good for that, at least since his missles are crap, haha.

let me ask you guys something...
what is your stand on all the public gatherings? - people getting together and saying stop the war....
my personal opinion:
It's nice to see people think about peace and speak out their minds but one thing bothers me...Why don't they actually do stuff? I mean like why don't they gather food for hungry people or plant trees or volunteer to go to Irak and take care of the people they so much "care" about? If every guy I see on TV going out on the street with big signs saying STOP THE WAR! would put up 200$ for the orphans or for the war refugees they would do some good. I believe they are just bored at home and go out for some fun - that or they take after some other guys who tell them "Hey man, War is bad maaan - here, have a smoke - make love not war!" They don't actually think and that makes me sick - if you took just one of those aside and you would ask him why doesn't he DO something I think he wouldn't know what to answer... It's like those damn eco-freaks boy those make me sick - the ones asking for paper bags because plastic doesn't biologically degrade... Yeah - let's cut some trees to make some paper bags! Why the hell should we use recyclable oil byproducts? Who cares that you can recycle a plastic bag almost infinitely and paper just once.
Is this a bag made out of recycled paper? Yes maam. Oh good - wouldn't want to spoil the environment....
Cut down the forrests - support the ecosystem!
Boy I'm kinda' drunk - better get to bed. I started with the peace lovers and got to the tree lovers I really like nature... I am a nice guy....I think....

First, good thread! - Hopefully this is all over soon, though.

Here are a few links for peace.
(and don't call me a hippie! :D)

Waging Peace has a huge list of sites you can visit.

Peace Brigades International.

Axis Of Justice taught me alot about what's driving this war.

System Of A Down's new video is also quite educational, watch it twice.

Hippie!