Changed It Once Again

Originally posted by skettalee
Lol.. alot of great arguments.. loved it all.. learning already.. that you guys are all dicks..


just kiddin.. lol thanx though...

So, what would you prefer? Would you prefer that we be dicks about your work, and as a result, you learn? Or would you prefer that we be all nice and be creampuffs and tell you that your work is good when it's not, and, as a result, you don't better yourself?

Personally, I wouldn't mind if all the world were dicks,if it helped me to better myself.

sorry if i came off to hard, but its hard to just hard to tell someone to fix something when they always say "oh well im not gonna do that cuz i like this" why bother coming in here and saying you want comments if you aint gonna use them... not saying you said those exact words but ive seen people completely refuse comments

All i'm saying is that it doesn't help anyone if all you say is "it sucks" or "i don't like it." Yes, people come here to get critiqued, but they also come here to learn. I'm not talking about saving someone's precious feelings, all I'm saying is that most of the time, people post on here because they want constructive criticism. Yes, it's easy to say "If they don't want to hear negative opinions, they shouldn't post." Well, that just plain doesn't work. Admit it, nobody wants to hear negative opinions. You don't come here hoping that somebody will hate your work. Deker is right. just hearing "i don't like it" doesn't help you learn. You don't open up photoshop after that and just pop out a beautiful design. If there were only two possible web site designs, the one that is "liked," and the one that is "disliked," then it would be appropriate. Unfortunately things aren't that black and white, there are infinite shades of grey, so if you do have something negative to say, at least try to help them get something out of it. And besides, giving some sort of backup that makes sense makes you sound more credible, so the person is more likely to take your comment into account anyway.

I'm not trying to make sure nobody gets offended, but honestly, what is the point of saying that you don't like something without some kind of backup. I understand that you have every right to just say that you don't like something. But if you want the person to improve, then it's very easy to just type in a few extra lines. A lot of people come here to improve...so help them do that.

You can point out flaws in a nice, diligent manner, rather than be derogatory about it, supa. I'm not saying you should just start being sweet like the power puff girls, but there is a line of respect you should owe towards someone who posts their work, and just dropping to "I hate it" doesn't seem right. I would think people would no better, but I can see not. A nice "I don't like it, because ---," or "I don't like this because it just doesn't appeal to me," would suffice.

There are those of us with bipolar disorder, or who are really emotional, who are deeply offended by the manner people choose to express commentary on certain topics.


Christopher William Coddington (Xzandar / cwcandromeda)

1. Notice how I mentionednothing about how saying "I don't like it" will help someone.

While there's nothing terribly wrong with just saying "I don't like it," it's not quite as good as saying "I don't like it, for *whatever reasons*, and you can do *whatever* to make it better."

I completely agree with this statement, lifeonaplate.

2.

but hey, doesn't hurt to make it sound nice, even if you really do hate it .

I disagree with this. Making it sound nice will blunt your attitude towards the piece of work.

You see, everyone who posts their work here is (and there are some who might disaggree) an Artist. And, since everyone here is an artist, they wnat to further themselves.

As fellow artists, we owe it to beginners to tel them the truth. And in my mind, the complete truth is mroe useful than a half truth.

cwcoddington: I don't know anything about bipolar disease, so I don't want to comment on it, plus i might be running the risk of accidentally insulting you about your disease when believe me, that is the last thing I want to do.

You just have to realize, that there are people in this world who are a lot harsher than me in their criticisms, and there are people who are not as harsh. There are a wide range or people, and many of them really wont care if your feelings are hurt.

I'm not one of those people, I try my best not to hurt anyone's feelings.

but the thing is, the higher a level your art is at, the more and more people you're going to have to ask critiques from, and unfortunately, sooner or later, you're going to run into someone who feels that driving a piece of art into the ground (critiquewise) is the best way, and will do that.

Plus, you have to realize something. When I critique something harshly, I am critiquing the art, not you. I am critiquing it so that you can better yourself, and your quality of work has nothing to do with your character or personality.
Possibly, understanding this would help you accept harsh criticism.

Just understand, my harsh critiques are not personality attacks. and outside of my critiques, I try my best not to be a dick :D lol

I think we can all agree on one thing...this thread needs to die already :D .

supahsekzy, it doesn't have anything to do with being an artist or not. It's about mutual respect, and not sounding too harsh.

It doesn't help to sound harsh rather then to sound constructive.
If the 'artist' doesn't pick up the suggestions that you suggested, then he doesn't deserve them, right? No need to bash him on the head with the suggestions.

Well, what I said was that the mutual respect came from giving critiques to a fellow artist.

And i dont know what you mean by this "he doesnt deserve the suggestion" thing, because I think he does. everyone deserves the suggestions they're given in a critique.

Like you said, bashing somoen wiht the suggestion might be harsh, but if the suggestion gets through to him, then voila, your critique was successful.

Whereas if your suggestion doesn't get through, your critique was unsuccessful.

No matter the other artist/designer's skill level, they always deserve the suggestions.

That was not what I meant... I meant that there are more ways to make someone understand your suggestions. Bashing one on the head with the suggestions isn't what we do on this forum.
You can just tell what you don't like about a piece, if he/she doesn't understand... then so be it. Screaming the suggestions at him/her won't help anyone. Try a different angle for a while, and you'll see that it will work as well.

Like you said, bashing somoen wiht the suggestion might be harsh, but if the suggestion gets through to him, then voila, your critique was successful.

if your suggestion gets through. My experience is that harsh comments just lead to total different results, most of the time to flaming threads and people that get angry and defensive, and not willing to take any of the advice.

No matter the other artist/designer's skill level, they always deserve the suggestions.

Sure they do... it has nothing to do with skill level. Skill level is out of the question here. What I meant was, after you tried giving your comments and critique in a nice and civilized way and the 'artist' still doesn't understand... so be it. Don't get harsh on them.

Maybe.

My experience on harsh critiques is that you learn from them, and that they stick in your head, the latter being the main reason that you learn.

Probably the reason why I give them to others is because when I was learning, that's how it was done to me. and I learned, and it sticked in my head.

I think that if a person gets angry and defensive, then possibly he shouldn't have asked for the critique in the first place. Either he wasn't ready for it, or wasn't mature enoguh for it. You should ask for a critique expecting anything. Like i said before, different people have different ways of critiquing, and when you ask a complete stranger for a critique, you'll never know how he responds.

I accept all critiques, especially the blunt ones, with both hands.


One more thing... I kind of do get uncomfortable when my technique of critiquing is called "harsh", or is referred to as "bashing someone over the head," or "screaming the suggestions." I don't think I do that, I just think my critiques are "hard", not "harsh."

I.e. My critique for something bad will be:
Dude, that sucks. It's ugly, becuase the blha blah and the yadda yadda etc etc.

That's it. I don't have like 5 paragraphs on ranting about how it sucks, and 5 words on why it does.

By far, the why is way more crucial than the how.