Ever done work for free?

I have to admit, I've never been put in a spot quite like this, but I figured I'd post just to get a second opinion. Anyway, in case you don't want to muddle through all the text, here's the gist of the story.

A person IM's me. He wants a logo 'quickly' modified. He found my name on teamps, via google, assumably, and thought I was the man for the job (unless of course I was just the only one who responded, and he in fact contacted anyone else). Anyway, the quick modification became something that modified the existing logo in such a manner that it was really a new logo.

I was now designing a logo.

For free.

Here's our conversation:


Session Start (paulganguly:qKe): Sat Mar 26 20:22:09 2005
qKe: Hi. Are you there?

**I didn't get home till much later. Upon seeing that the person who IM'ed me was still online, I IM'ed back saying the following:**

Session Start (paulganguly:qKe): Sun Mar 27 01:21:28 2005
qKe: i think i imed you
Paul Ganguly: yeah, earlier
Paul Ganguly: who's this?
qKe: to see if you could photoshop something for me
Paul Ganguly: yeah, who's this?
qKe: i found your aim on a photoshop forum
qKe: my name is dan
Paul Ganguly: teamphotoshop.com?
qKe: yea
Paul Ganguly: what is it that you need done?
qKe: i quick change one a pic
Paul Ganguly: um,
qKe: it's gonna be turned into a vinyl sticker
*** qKe wants to directly connect.
Paul Ganguly: the way it usually works on those forums is that a user posts a question, and the other members see what they can do to point you in the direction of getting the job done themselves
qKe: i know
qKe: but i don't have photoshop
Paul Ganguly: unless they in fact have paying work, at which time they're able to negotiate pricing
qKe: so i browsed to see if i could find a good artist
Paul Ganguly: well, what's the nature of this project?
qKe: and i seen your art
qKe: it's pretty easy
qKe: if i had photoshop i would do it myself
Paul Ganguly: try sending it to me again
qKe: if i could show you the image
qKe: you try connecting to me
Paul Ganguly: one second
Session Close (qKe): Sun Mar 27 01:26:03 2005


Session Start (paulganguly:qKe): Sun Mar 27 01:26:11 2005
qKe: ok
*** Auto-response sent to qKe: Sleep
*** paulganguly wants to directly connect.
Paul Ganguly: do you see the connect dialogue?
qKe: yea
qKe: it says you don't accpet them
Paul Ganguly: damn
Paul Ganguly: email me at paulganguly[at]gmail.com
qKe: okay
qKe: 1sec
qKe: sent
qKe: when you get the pic
qKe: let me know
Paul Ganguly: maybe you could help me out here a little bit
qKe: cuz what i needed done
qKe: sure
qKe: ?
Paul Ganguly: what's your nickname on that forum?
qKe: l'm not registered
qKe: i just searched for adope forums
qKe: and came across that one
qKe: then viewed some of the posts and saw your artwork
qKe: it's badass
Paul Ganguly: thanks
qKe: the banner i sent you
Paul Ganguly: so what're you looking to have done on this?
qKe: what i need
qKe: is see how it says
qKe: GSC
Paul Ganguly: yeah
qKe: and then GSCmotorsports.com
qKe: I need it to say BMS
qKe: where it says GSC
qKe: and make it say
qKe: BOSTON-MOTORSPORTS.COM
qKe: where the gscmotorsports.com is
qKe: same font if possible
qKe: or maybe hemihead font if you have that
qKe: that's pretty much it
qKe: if you could do that for me
qKe: you think that could be done or no
Paul Ganguly: yeah
qKe: awesome
qKe: how long would it take, if you don't mind me asking
Paul Ganguly: how big do you want the 'BOSTON-MOTORSPORTS.COM' text to be?
qKe: same size as the gscmotorsports one please
Paul Ganguly: alright
qKe: pretty much everything the same, just make it say BMS, and then BOSTON-MOTORSPORTS.COM
qKe: instead
qKe: hehe
Paul Ganguly: I don't have that font, but I have a similar one called 'bitsumishi'
qKe: okay
qKe: sounds good
Paul Ganguly: alright, check the email
qKe: okay
qKe: 1sec
qKe: lol
qKe: what i meant
qKe: was remove the GSC parts
qKe: and add BMS
Paul Ganguly: oh
qKe: hee
qKe: h
Paul Ganguly: well, that's kind of a different story then
Paul Ganguly: I dont' have that typeface
qKe: sorry, i wasn't specific
Paul Ganguly: I have the other, similar looking typeface
qKe: what's that
Paul Ganguly: essentially, what you're asking me to do is make you a logo
Paul Ganguly: for free
qKe: alright
qKe: nevermind
qKe: thanks for the help though
Paul Ganguly: well, all I'm saying is that if the other typeface is ok, I can do that, but what you have to understand is that I'm on EST time, and it's 2:00, on a holiday weekend
qKe: that's coo man
qKe: no problem
qKe: i don't have money right now
qKe: thanks anyways, happy holidays
Paul Ganguly: that being said, if all you want is 'bms' in big letters, I'll see what I can do, but essentially if this is to become an element of your group identity, then that's sort of another issue
Paul Ganguly: no problem
Paul Ganguly: I'd suggest this though
qKe: ?
Paul Ganguly: for future reference
qKe: ok
Paul Ganguly: join either the forum you found my name on, or another like it (ther are many) and become a viable part of that community, and you'll find that the friends you make there will often be willing to make things for you for free
qKe: i know
qKe: i knew this one kid
qKe: who was nasty in art
qKe: but i lost his s/n
Paul Ganguly: one sec
qKe: okay
Paul Ganguly: check your mail
qKe: ok
qKe: 1sec
qKe: awesome
qKe: thanks alot man, i appreicate it
Paul Ganguly: your welcome
qKe: sorry to bother you with that stuff
qKe: thanks alot bro
Paul Ganguly: keep me in mind for future work, if your company gets off the ground
Paul Ganguly: alright, I better get some sleep
qKe: will do
qKe: l'll add you to my list
Paul Ganguly: sure
qKe: when we grow, l'll make sure you grow
qKe: hehe
qKe: thanks again
Paul Ganguly: sounds good
Paul Ganguly: talk to you later
qKe: aight man,
qKe: sounds good, happy easter


Also, Dan, if you do decide to join this forum, don't get the wrong idea here. I'm not really trying to alienate you, but I've never been in this situation before, and I was wondering if anyone else had, and what they've done about it.

When one opts to become a professional graphic designer, does the issue of the time that it takes to complete a design outweigh the nature of the work product?

This was a case (as noted in the text above) where I was now being charged with the task of creating an organizations corporate identity. This is something that you undeniably ought to be paid for, because essentially, I am creating at least part of the company's face.

Anyway, if you read through all the text, you'll find that I did it anyway.

Original:


Mine:


Altogether, it took me an hour. But I feel that this is one case where the nature of the work being performed outweighed the actual time spent producing it.

I dunno, maybe I'm making a big deal out of this, but the fact remains, the guy got a free logo, at 2 in the morning, on a holiday weekend, from a guy he's neither met nor spoken to.

Guess I'm just kinda nice guy then.

Anyway, lemme know what you think about any of that.

I hate that. Its happened to me a few times. Damn n00bs surf your profile, then request whatever they want....anything from a sig to a full website lol (for free). I always ignore them, unless they're a forum member ive heard of and im willing to help out.

As to the logo, did he copy a logo or change his orig logo name?? If he copied (illegally that is) Id do the work for him, then contact the original company lol.

Been there done that probably like 10 times...
I have done it a few times just because I've been bored... but the worst part is when people who want free stuff then keeps annoying you that you should still change something and go like...
have you done it, have you done it, 3joooorn?
argh...

that's not the crappiest case.
that would be when a guy who paid for your work once or even twice starts asking for "friendly help"....but serious work - like databases and stuff
and you help him out once..twice... three times.. and then when you ask him if all this will ever get paid he gets offended and says - hey - I thought we were friends - didn't I pay for your work?... and speaks nice to you.. and you do just one more.. and never hear from him again...
Happened to me more times than I care to remember.

as for free work - I would gladly do free work for a real friend - or even for someone who is in trouble and asks honestly for help... wouldn't do it for crappy people who smoothtalk you ... heh...
and Paul - yeah - you're a nice guy hihi

I do little stuff for peeps I know, sometimes big stuff. For a total stanger, I guess it would depend on what he wanted. In this case, he appears to be asking you to steal what I'm guessing is a copyrighted logo for him. Bad practice even for a paying customer--don't want to tick someone off on the internet because 'you' stole their logo. Next thing you know, you're getting hate mail from fans of GSCmotorsports.com ... ;) Next thing you know, if you want to continue to be a professional graphics designer, you have to change your name, dye your hair let it grow long, and move to Amsterdam!!!!





...sorry NL, I let your little secret out.

Pganguly, sorry to hear that he tricked you into doing it... I've been there once or twice myself. I always try to get credit for the free work. Like this one time I made a cd cover for a band, and they mentioned me on their website and stuff, which never hurts anyone. You can promote yourself like this, if you play it right.

Next thing you know, if you want to continue to be a professional graphics designer, you have to change your name, dye your hair let it grow long, and move to Amsterdam!!!!

That literally made me laugh my guts out. Thanks for ruining my secret though, Dan! :d

y'all are a lot nicer than i am

chris

Pganguly you're a cool cat man. I also liked the way you went on after he was looking to just let you go and you led him to more advice. You went the extra mile for free.

But I'd say there are a few things to keep in mind. Hopefully this guy sees this thread someday and hopefully understands that some things are to be paid for. I've done some modifications for free when I started doing some advertising. But after a few times, I said, "no more".

Reason being that these people were seeing the final with my watermark, and after saying, "this is the one we'll go with" it was submitted, and then they requested modifications. So I started charging a fee for modifications that were made after the work was submitted.

Case in point: People always want something for free, but it's not a practice I would encourage. It's cool to hook up some friends or decent honest people who ask, but a stranger? I'm not sure if I'd do that man.

I understand the task seems/looks easy, but it can have an affect on other designers where standards are concerned. Or someone like this guy might contact another member of TeamPhotoshop and say, "Well Pganguly did it for free before why not you...?"

Just some things to consider man. All in all I'm sure it was nothing, but if you can get some cash for your time and knowledge, I'd do it for a stranger. Family is different you know...and we're all family here...we'll most of us anyway.

My two cents, nothing more nothing less. All in all though, that was a cool hook up man.


Cheers!

You should really only do free stuff for close friends and family, you have to remember every time a designer does something for free its taking away work from designers who have to make a living out of it.

What would happen if more and more people did free work for people, then these people realise that graphic design is simply something you just dont have to pay for, it spreads like a disease and pretty much every one realises that they can get something for free.

The design industry would take a major dive.

I came across a similar problem with the airbrushing industry here in Aus. Years ago airbrush artists were charging good money for quality work. What happened was new artists were doing dirt cheap or free work just to "get there name out there" this reduced the price of airbrush work dramatically across the board. The only people who are making money out of airbrushing here now are 2 or 3 places. The new artists never made it because as soon as they put there prices up the customers just move on to the people who arent charging for it.

One thing i always do if someone asks me to do something but they dont have money is say o.k. what are you going to do for me, if the person is genuine they will say what do you want or they offer something, the people you dont want to deal with are the ones that you dont hear from again.

All in all always get something for your work to the same value. and remember the people who do free work are not just ripping themselves off but they are also damaging the whole industry. Even if you are just learning you are entitled to ask for something in exchange.

Learn to say "NO."