How did some of you get started in freelance work?

That is an impressive list Deker! I think you said some very important things that we can all learn from. Research your clientelle (sp?), dress professionally, but be relaxed. I'm going to have to follow suit and re think my plan! lol.

Now those are the words of a prepared man. Print out Deker's post and make a checklist out of it, seriously. That is some awesome advice.

Dang, I can't think of anything else but emphasize deker's list. As I was reading it myself (since I'm curious how everyone got started with this stuff too) I thought of a great thing to say, but the next thing listed would always be what I as gonna say :p.
If you expect to be treated professionally you have to act. I haven't really entered the working world that much yet (I'm just interning for the summer before college, and I also sing at church on sundays for money), but I've definitly noticed that everything requires some extent of acting. I'm a shy/silent speaking fellow, but in order to carry off any job (I've done solo things/group stuff for various events/competitions weddings) I have to act just the opposite of who I am. You just gotta play the part as deker has put it. I'd also definitly have to emphasize that relationships are extremely important. It look awfully bad when you forget something basic (ie a person's name, their company's name, what their company is involved with). It certainly is a lot of work, and it can certainly sound discouraging and feel discouraging starting out, just don't lose yourself in it. Smiles and acting cheerful for people is fine, but it can show through when you really aren't into it/excited about the prospect of a new customer/project/etc. So just be sure to have fun with it.
(Sorry if this sounded like advice from a 17 yr old, after all that's what it is, and by no means do I think I really know much of anything about how it all works, but I have had some good experiences and thought maybe it would help. A wonderful teacher of mine, when putting us in groups for critiquing papers, told us that even if you saw a mistake was already pointed out by somebody else, emphasizing the point is important so the person knows the concept/problem is really important.)

GO deker.... great listing... a lot of important and even vital points in there..

thanks for taking the time ;)

"Wear nice shoes, and a belt. Slacks and a polo or oxford shirt"

Lol, if i was getting interviewed for a graphic design job, that would be the last thing i'd wear. That to me makes you look like a businessman..don't degrade yourself that much. You're a 'creative artist'. I'd wear what im wearing now, a trendy grungy tight shirt with worn and torn jeans and a crazy hairstyle.

If you wanted a website and saw that the person wanting to do it for you looked like a businessman, wouldn't you run? The first thing that would go through my mind is 'oh no, this website will look like other boring business website with a different logo in the top corner'. Maybe loose the grungy shirt, keep the nice jeans and maybe a casual shirt. And always smile.

You wanted to hear a story. My first job ever was for a new irish band, shu. I was asked to create their website. So i did, and a good one at that (www.houseofshu.com). My biggest mistake was not to discuss money first. I got paid €100 (~$100) when i should have got paid around €4000 (yes, that is four thousand and yes i got paid one hundred). Ya. ALWAYS SET YOUR PRICE FIRST AND TAKE IT FROM THEM IN INSTALLMENTS. Lets say that after looking at how big the site is going to be you set your price at say $4,000 or something small like that, you take some of that money first, before you do ANYTHING. Then draw some designs, and clear it with the client. Create your design. Take more money. Do any scripting or extra stuff and after tha, take the rest. Do not be shy when setting your price, be confident. If they think that you are charging too much, go down in price, but by no lower than $500. If they still don't like it, tell them to f*ck off and laugh at their microsoft-style website.

Actually, one more thing, never do freebies. They are a waste of your time. Do nixers by all means and get paid a little, but no, never do work for free. There's really no point. MONEY + more experience = goooood.

Thanks for all the info guys!!!!!

What is really frustrating too is that in EVERY,and I do mean EVERY email I get about web site design,either the first line in the email or last line in the email is
" I don't have that much money,....."

Alot of these too are startup business companies that want a website for 100 dollars. My last email was a guy wanting a website, he wanted to sell rims,and some other stuff for trucks,I charged him only 120 dollars for everything, and I still think he might of thought that was too high.

However,one of my bosses told me, that I should see about raising my prices alot, he said he had a friend exactly like me, didn't make much money, did good work, and then he just raised his prices like crazy and now he has non stop business.

If your clients are bands, then yes, wearing more casual clothes will be better. But if your target clients are businesses, going in there looking like some punk artist will not work. You can be creative and still act like a businessperson. People want a good creative web site, but they don't want to feel like they are going to get ripped off by some artist that takes the money and runs. Bands may run from slacks and a tie, but businesses (people with actual money) will run from grungy t-shirts and jeans. When you are meeting with clients and other businesspeople, you are a salesman, not an artist. You're selling yourself or your business. Save the t-shirt and jeans for hanging out with your arty friends.

And yes always get money up front.

Some people even charge for the inital meeting. Or say yes, lets talk about your site for an hour, and if we go over that I will have to start charging a $40 consulting fee. Because if you are talking to someone more than an hour about their site, they are probably getting way too much free information from you.

as far as the dress code, keep this in mind:

design firms != traditional businesses (that would be not equal to for those of you who don't speak geek)

for the most part a typical business doesn't want to see that creative side in your appearance. if you're VERY good and/ have a reputation then you can get away with it (my former boss did) but for the most part just keeping it neat and clean, khakis or dress pants with a button down shirt, is your best bet. meeting with a band or a similar client would probably be different, just be careful.

to be honest dressing for a design interview isn't that much different, i'll tend to be a bit more laid-back, maybe wear brighter colors, and i'll leave the earring in and spike my hair up a bit more than usual, but i'm still pressed and ironed and looking presentable. i've seen guys come in just looking rough and unshaven and wearing ripped jeans, and while that may be their idea of personal style and expression it conveys a certain sense of messiness and lack of attention to detail that you really don't want to give; if you can't dress yourself presentably do i really want to hire you to design meticulous work for me? unless you've visited a firm before you never quite know what their general dress code/style is, and its always better to be overdressed than underdressed. i will tell you tho, we used to laugh at people who came in for design interviews wearing a tie :D

chris

I just got to reading this thread here and man am I impressed with Deker's list. Wish I'd a been on this when it was current.

Anyway, my spill is that I too am starting to look a little more into freelance work. Site design is still pretty new to me, but I'm more in the area of literature. Ghostwriting, creative writing, editing legal jargon, and that sort of thing.

Nonetheless, Deker's recipe for success is sure to be a hit, no doubt. But from friends that I have, although starting out locally and small, the aim should be accounts. For instance a friend of mine who does graphic design was struggling with a job here and there. You know, a few businesses hitting him up for a job or two.

But then he started aiming for accounts and marketing himself. He's done work for some pretty huge companies and has kept those accounts open that provide some huge profits and great experience. So within the same lines of Deker's thoughts, you can't show up at Coca-Cola chillin' with some torn up faded jeans and a psychadelic shirt blinding the peeps in administration.

It's not always the best bet to walk into corporate offices for our local theme park or Sea World saying, "What up dawg!" or as we say in our latin lingo with some funky bilingual "¡Que onda perro!"

But I would suggest aiming for accounts. In my case I'm looking for newspaper, magazine, and corporate accounts to do some editing for brochures, manuals, columns and so on.

But keep your head up high, flow with the professionalism, and you'll be alright. Competition is never long lasting, in terms of trends. By that I mean, what is competitive today in trend form, will change tomorrow. We've got to maintain our creative juices at a high and mingle with a diverse crowd to effectively communicate via paper or monitor.

Cheers to you all!

damm all of you had such good insight, its good to hear that really good designers like yourselfs had a tuff time too, i sertantly am, mostly cause i dont have the time i want to practice and work on geetiing better, i have a fulltime , stressfull, job. leaving me no time for my web practicing..if you can call it that.
Its ben hard but it helps to know some good people talking and giving advice, thanxs all , and good luck to all of us trying to make it.